"FRFR-like" speaker for a 2x12 Guitar Cab ?

  • Hi guys,


    I need some advice for a custom 2x12 setup. I am a KPA new user (bought it last week !) and I would like to replace my gear then.
    So far, I have a Blackstar HT-20 head + 2x12 cab equipped with Celestion V30 speakers.


    I plan to order the Matrix GM50, which seems to be a very efficient solution to power the 2x12 cab without coloring the sound (waiting for the module to put in the back of KPA).
    Nevertheless, I want to take advantage of KPA cab simulations and I am analyzing the possibility to change the V30 speakers to a more "FRFR-like" speaker, like the Eminence Beta-12LTA Full Range 12" speaker.


    Or maybe is it better to sell the 2x12 and buy something like EV ELX112 (300e) ? In this case could I buy just one piece to start or I must buy a pair (sorry for the silly question...but not so easy when you have no skills on this) ? :rolleyes:


    Any thoughts / suggestions very much appreciated !!


    Marco

  • Hi Marco,
    I don't know where are you located, but Tube-Town in Germany created a variation of the Thiele Cab in order to be used with modelers, but i think they discontinued it, and now the just build a thiele cab copy.
    Probably a Thiele Cab might me a good option.

  • Hi Jimmy and many thanks for your feedback.
    Sorry for my ignorance...but what is a "thiele" cab ? I tried to google the word, but I cqnnot understand if it is an home made cab or a model...
    Moreover, do you have any idea of the speaker Tube-Town put in it ?


    I am in South of France, unfortunately I have not planned to go to Germany in the coming days :D

  • Thiele cab is a very popular 1x12" cab designed by Electro Voice for bass and then made popular by Mesa Boogie for guitar.
    From a certain point of view they are similar to a PA cab (designed to be quite flat), and they usually use an Electro Voice EVM12L, which is something between a guitar speaker and a PA one (indeed they go up to 7000Hz, while Celestions usually stop at 5000Hz).
    It's different form the Eminence you are looking at since the Electro Voice hasn't a tweeter in the center, while the Eminence does.


    Consider that probably you need a crossover (even a passive one) to let the Eminence work properly, and you might not get the desired result because of the cabinet design. Think that PA cabs are very different from guitar cabs, so putting speakers coming from a different world in a guitar cab might be unpleasant.


    The thiele cabs are designed to be pretty flat (while they are bass heavy), and PA speakers might work better than in classic guitar cabs.


    Consider that playing with a guitar cab is completely different form playing with a FRFR. If I were you I'd rather go in a shop to check how do FRFR cabs sound like, since what you get is not an "amp-in-the-room" sound, but a mic'ed amp sound.
    I like it while other don't, so try to have a look around.


    If you choose the FRFR way, you are ok with a simple cab too, you don't need to buy a pair, even if a stereo rig is always exciting. :thumbup:

  • Fine...and very wise words :thumbup:


    I am used to play "real" guitar tube amps...I must admit I am a little afraid about changing to a FRFR (stupid old school guitarist considerations) :D
    But I read a lot of very good comments, it must be very adapted then...


    Do you have any advice of an FRFR around 300/500e (I listen very good comments on RCF NX12...but unfortunately I do not have the budget). In this case no need of GM50 right (I have not ordered yet the gear) ?

  • Well, probably it's not a "real" FRFR (but no cab has a real flat response), but i'm pretty happy with DB flexsys FM10, which is a 200w powered coaxial monitor. You can take a look to a FM12 which has a 12"coaxial speaker too. I paid mine 250€ used (even it's almost new), while the FM12 can be found new at 410 euros here in Italy.
    I had a good experience with the Mon121 by LD system and I have heard good feedbacks from the Verve 12MA, which can be found used at 500€.


    if you decide to buy a powered speaker you wouldn't need any matrix power module.

  • Ah ma sei italiano allora ? :thumbup:


    OK I will check these speakers then. Are they ok to play in little gigs like bars or pubs ?
    We mainly play in this kind of little places (20/100 people) and I am used to directly play through my Blackstar tube head + 2x12 cab (we use the PA only for voice). Is the "wedge" type of DB speakers adapted to play like this ?


    Meanwhile (I am reading so much posts since this morning to try to understand something), I heard a lot of good feedback about the Atomic Cab : http://www.atomicamps.com/products.htm
    The passive one is about 349$...it could be also a good solution linked to a Matrix GM50 ?
    And I keep the feel of a "real" guitar cab 8)

  • Ciao Marco,


    what about 2 single 1x12 cabs? This would probably give you more versatility, since you can also have a nice stereo system when you like.


    Modellers becoming more popular nowadays, many brands are offering specific products to meet users' needs. Matrix themselves are, and Atomic as well. You could also start buying one and add the other one later on, so you won't have to go for too cheap ones (IMO; a good loudspeaker is at least 50% of a rig's quality, specially when it comes to linear ones (modeller+'FRFR')


    Uh, and welcome here :)

  • Ciao Gianfranco, grazie per la risposta !


    It seems to be a very good solution, as I will be able to buy "good" 1x12 in 2 steps (best solution for my bank account) 8o
    Do you have any suggestion about the models ?
    The Atomic Reactor Cab passive ?
    Or the Matrix CFR12 (but I am afraid the wedge "shape" would not be really adapted for my usage when I play in bars/pubs) ?


    Thanks to all of you, the forum is full of very nice and helpful people !
    Grazie !! :thumbup:

  • Uh...I found a few used "Atomic Reactor 112" (about 300e)...18W, but tube (i.e. today I play with a 20W Blackstar)
    Maybe a good choice to start ? Maybe not as good as the last version, but any feedback on this ?


    If it is not a good choice, I can put a little more (around 500e), as said ;)

  • I heard bad feedbacks about it: it seems lacking of headroom and i think that you might find something which suits better your needs ;)
    Once again: you'd rather try before buy ;)


    Comunque si sono italiano, ma se tu scrivi che sei del Sud della Francia io ti rispondo in inglese o in francese :P

  • Hi Guitarnet !
    Sure :D
    Following your advice, I bought the FC50 this morning and I am so happy with it :thumbup: :thumbup:


    Waiting for your feedback then ;)

  • I'm quite happy with my 10" monitor, but consider that I have my main monitoring thru IEM's.
    By the way that cabinet seems to be nice, even thought I love the coaxial driver design, because of smaller space and better sound (imho).


    I'm pugliese ;)

  • Hi, and thanks for all your feedback !


    Here it is my decision : I will buy the GM50 (not very expensive) and start in playing live the Kemper with my current Celestion V30 cab (with cab simulation off).
    I will take the time then to test FRFR speakers, to listen if possible at Camper amp, Atomic etc. and take the time to choose the best solution for my needs.


    In any case a very instructive topic and once again, thanks to all for your kindness !!


    Cheers


  • there will be much more choices available from Matrix soon...Active and passive FRFR...Active and and passive guitar cabs ...wedge and square sizes ;)


    @+


    BRUNO