'EDGE' delay setup issues with the Kemper

    I hv a live recording concert setup issue that i need advise on...





    Basically we do a lot of U2 delays but i have my RJM Rack Gizmo with the Timeline (killdry) going into RJM Mini Line Mixer and into the fx loop of the Kemper in stereo. The Timeline is on 100 percent (loudest wet mix possible) however i cant get the feel of Edge rhythmic delays goin...it sounded much better if i used Kemper's in built delay for it. So im wondering is it because i go through the Mini Line Mixer (a parallel delay setup) that it doesnt sound that obvious in its wet/dry ratio? Also on the Kemper the 'Loop' is on at 50 percent mix (thats correct right?)...The 'Direct Out' to the effects(Timeline and Reverb) for the kemper's 'Loop' is 'Git Analog'...is that correct?



    2 scenarios i encountered...



    1. When i use the left master out to my amp fx loop i can hear the Timeline better but not the inbuilt delay from kemper for that rhythmic delays.



    2. When i use the 'Monitor Out' as 'Master Mono' to the amp fx loop i can hear the stereo inbuilt delay but not so much on the Timeline going through the Mini Line Mixer (it enables u to hv a dry sound parallel to the delay)





    Someone please help me as soon as possible please.
    Show is tomorrow, final rehearsal tonight...appreciate it if anyone can get back to me asap...thx so much.

    Guitarnet70> it is in the fx loop of the KPA. So basically the KPA functions as an amp except my fx loop routing is as follow: KPA Direct Out (git analog)-RJM Rack Gizmo loop 7- Timeline in stereo (kill dry)-Mini Line Mixer (with dry signal as well)- back into the both 'alternative input' for a stereo fx loop function. The fx loop is set at 50%(100% cause the Kemper output to be peaked with red light as the fx loop also has a dry sound passing through it)


    Thats the way right?

    Git analog is the dry guitar signal coming in the KPA, without anything, it is normally used to record a dry track for re-amping, do you have a loop somewhere in the Stomps or FX? You need a Stereo Loop in X (the loop otherwise is not active). Do you have anything else on the Gizmo out of the Timeline? If not I would not use it, neither the line mixer.


    Edit: using a stereo loop in X the direct out signal should be Stack

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    We'll have some soon as local presets.


    We had a thread some months ago, where settings were discussed.
    It's easy:


    Chose Tap Delay.
    Set mix to a high value (80% and more?)
    Select Clock Left and Clock Right to 3/16.
    Tap the Tap button in quarter notes to your desired tempo.
    Play 8th notes on the guitar (not 16th).
    Adjust the feedback, create a rolloff by turning up Bandwidth.


    For more alternative delay patterns try the following pairs for Clock Left and Right:
    3/16 and 2/16
    3/16 and 4/16
    5/16 and 3/16 (my favorite)


    Tell me your results!

    Hi Chris-yes i ended up using the inbuilt delay. I opted for the Timeline at 1st due to the feedback level on the delays not separate. The left and right delays re controlled by one feedback which still works very well but i wasnt used to the ratio of how the 2 delays gallop against each other....but in any case , kemper delay worked so well i ended up using that instead.


    What im still bit unsure of is, what difference is it when the 'direct out' is 'git analog' or 'stack'....which one is best for fx loop application? Sorry i should hv more time to try and figure out but due to the live recording gig in session plus the added routing with the rack im having a hard time trying each 'direct out' modes.


    Also, i was right to just plug to my amp's fx loop through the 'monitor out' at 'master mono' as opposed to the 'left out' from the master right?...again, im not sure of how the different output modes apply.(git analog, git processed, git studio, etc)


    Guitarnet70- It should be on 'Stack'??? kindly explain please.



    Thx for the help guys.

    Quote from ARelicMind80

    What im still bit unsure of is, what difference is it when the 'direct out' is 'git analog' or 'stack'....which one is best for fx loop application? Sorry i should hv more time to try and figure out but due to the live recording gig in session plus the added routing with the rack im having a hard time trying each 'direct out' modes.


    You want your FX Loop for time based FX after the amp so you choose 'stack'.
    'git analog' is when you want to slave through your unaltered guitar signal to another amp in order to profile it.


    Quote from ARelicMind80


    Also, i was right to just plug to my amp's fx loop through the 'monitor out' at 'master mono' as opposed to the 'left out' from the master right?...
    .


    Yes, thats's correct. With using monitor out and also the 'cab off' on monitor out you enable the cabdriver and get the best results when plugging to the FX return of an amp.
    Master Mono sums the Master Out to mono, otherwise you would only get left or right delay tails for example.

    Quote from ckemper

    We'll have some soon as local presets.
    We had a thread some months ago, where settings were discussed.
    Chose Tap Delay.


    Set mix to ....
    Adjust the feedback ...


    Tell me your results!


    These settings are for sure very good and we can achive very good result, but to reach the real Edge sound it is needed something different... here is one of the most detailed study on this topic:
    http://www.amnesta.net/edge_delay/


    I don't know how difficult can be manage such request on the actual implementation of the KPA, but two things are needed more in the future:
    1) the possibility to have an additional delay in slot X or MOD
    2) the possibility to have a REAL Free Delay with Right and Left channel with completely indipendent Time, Feedback and Volume (in several other Gear this are present and are named DUAL Delay.


    I don't if my post is clear, hope you will consider that in the future...
    Thanks for the attention Mr. CK!


    Maurizio


    My questions to that:


    What will you trying to achieve with a second delay in X or Mod?
    Why asking for fixed milliseconds, if you could have rhythm values like 3/16 etc.
    What is the exact millisecond setting that you cannot replicate?

    Quote from ckemper

    My questions to that:
    What will you trying to achieve with a second delay in X or Mod?
    Why asking for fixed milliseconds, if you could have rhythm values like 3/16 etc.
    What is the exact millisecond setting that you cannot replicate?


    Q What will you trying to achieve with a second delay in X or Mod?
    A Mainly apply two delays in series, the first one long (more than 300-400 on) and second one short (below 150-200 ms). With this we can create several more possibilities of spatial and stereo effects. Double delays are used a lot in U2 and Pink Floyd song for example.


    Q Why asking for fixed milliseconds, if you could have rhythm values like 3/16 etc.
    What is the exact millisecond setting that you cannot replicate?
    A With rhythm value you can cover 90% of the needs for sure, but with independent ms and volumes for left and right you can:
    1) use little differences bwtween left and right that have a fantastic spatial effect, for example 495 and 505 ms, or 498 and 502 ms
    2) when you use on the right a long delay and on the left a short one, which also have a very good result, it's important have different feedback and volumes to perfectly tweak
    3) A real dual delay permit also (using wet 100%) to traslate the right signal from a predefined ms respect to the left one (which is often used in postprocessing duplicating and translating tracks
    4) Another appication is to have only the right or the left signal out and the other with a very low volume (this can be useful for playing with another guitarist and having two guitars on separate channel without using the mixer between song and apply the amount of separation in the rig itself)
    5) etc etc etc :)


    Thanks for the attention !




    We had the same topic in summer, I remember.
    We are planning delay stomps available in the Stomp slots.
    Also we are planning a continuous Ratio for the Free Delay and Analog Delay, rather than in steps.
    But we haven't given these features too much priority, the reasons for that are also my answer to your suggestions:


    - The Edge and David Gilmours delay sound are not made by serial delays, but by parallel delays like ours. I have never seen a report of a desirable delay sound made by serial delays.
    We have great timing patterns available. I never heard a combination of 5/16 and 3/16 on a record, even though it is superiour to the classic 3/16 setting.


    - Creating a spatial effect by using a constant delay offset for the left and right side is somewhat attractive, but also risky. It is really not a good advice.
    While applicable for live gigs, you should never use it for a recording, because you will harm the mono compatibility of the recording. When the recording is listened in mono, the left and right delay are mixed to one signal. This even happens, when you use the Profilers Monitor Output, that is mono.
    If you mix two signal with a constant delay offset you create a nasty combfilter effect. With a 10 ms offset this will kill the frequencies 150 HZ, 250 Hz, 350 Hz etc.of the delay signal.


    The delay offset is a recommendation from the 80's. Our delays feature a more advanced spacial effect: stereo modulation, a varying delay offset, that convert the combfilter into a gentle chorus effect.
    Adjust the depth of this effect by the parameter "Modulation" in every delay.


    - I have not understood your points 3) and 4) :(

    Quote from ckemper


    We had the same topic in summer, I remember.
    We are planning delay stomps available in the Stomp slots.
    Also we are planning a continuous Ratio for the Free Delay and Analog Delay, rather than in steps.
    But we haven't given these features too much priority, the reasons for that are also my answer to your suggestions...


    FANTASTIC, thanks for sharing the plan ... we can wait :thumbup:
    ... and thanks for the advices, I know that such kind of unusual delay setting can bring to some risk too, so, they have to be used carefully!


    Ciao!
    Maurizio

    Hello from Finland!


    I believe the problem is that when you adjust the "clock left", no matter what value you have in the "clock right", the tempo changes in both channels. "Clock right" seems to change only the start time of the delay in the right channel.


    In order to create "The Edge" -sound, you would have to be able to put for example a quarter note to the "clock left" and dotted eight in the "clock right" (or the other way around), independently.


    Now you can't do it because if you dial the "clock left", the delay time changes in both channels. So, basically this is just a ping pong -delay with adjustable start time in right channel.



    Regards, Antti


    EDIT: removed a couple of extra words





    We had the same topic in summer, I remember.
    We are planning delay stomps available in the Stomp slots.
    Also we are planning a continuous Ratio for the Free Delay and Analog Delay, rather than in steps.
    But we haven't given these features too much priority, the reasons for that are also my answer to your suggestions:


    - The Edge and David Gilmours delay sound are not made by serial delays, but by parallel delays like ours. I have never seen a report of a desirable delay sound made by serial delays.
    We have great timing patterns available. I never heard a combination of 5/16 and 3/16 on a record, even though it is superiour to the classic 3/16 setting.


    - Creating a spatial effect by using a constant delay offset for the left and right side is somewhat attractive, but also risky. It is really not a good advice.
    While applicable for live gigs, you should n

    Edited once, last by Antti ().