Midi Guitar

How's the response and tracking Armin?

I'm thinking it can't be as good as a hex pickup and hardware converter, which have never really done it for me.

THAT WAS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE

Its impossible to know the latency from a recording with no backing rhythm and sounds with soft attacks. Play us a sample with sounds that have a percussive attack over a drum track and do some 8th note runs at 120bpm (pianos are a good test) That should indicate the tracking, latency, and glitch tendencies. I'm a long time midi guitarist using hex Roland gear live. The limitations all come down to physics on pitch to midi conversion. I doubt an app will outperform hardware but would love to hear some more challenging samples.

bd

Wow,

i just tried the software. It´s incredible. I still have a Roland GR33 flying around here, but this software blows it to pieces. The tracking is way better. And though i didn´t calibrate anything the detection works pretty good without too many errors.

Playing a Multi GB Orchestra without a hex pickup is actually AWESOME!!!

Now I'm getting curious....

Quote from tylerhb

i just tried the software. It´s incredible. I still have a Roland GR33 flying around here, but this software blows it to pieces.

I find the project very interesting, but I tried it and... detection is far worst than my GR-30 + Godin Multiac.
Latency and accuracy are not even comparable...

Quote from ballantine

I find the project very interesting, but I tried it and... detection is far worst than my GR-30 + Godin Multiac.
Latency and accuracy are not even comparable...

Perhaps you´re using it wrong? I routed my KPA direct out dry signal into an audio track with the plugin loaded, while the MIDI track receives its input signal from the plugin. With the latency of my RME set to 64 Buffers, it tracks alot faster than my Roland...

I tried the iPad version (with a tascam iU2) using the internal piano sound... Interesting, but not usable at all.

Quote from ballantine

I tried the iPad version (with a tascam iU2) using the internal piano sound... Interesting, but not usable at all.

as far as i remember the ipad has a rather high latency compared to a native mac or pc. I tried it again today and i am heavily impressed...

Relevant demo please! I would love to hear a properly configured system with fast attack sounds as mentioned earlier. Also would love to hear some polyphonic bends (double stops on guitar) using brass or horn sounds.

bd

Thanks for pointing us to this App.

I tried it very briefly on my iPad last night too, with only the preset Piano sound, was also quite impressed with tracking for this just being a software solution, with no hex pickup or anything external. I had to turn the input sensitivity quite low, otherwise was getting a lot extra notes. I plugged guitar into Apogee Jam into iPad. Hoping to test it out a bit more in the coming days including Wi-fi with VSTi's.

As a long time midi guitarist, I have a decent understanding of midi triggered by guitar. Using a mono source such as a normal guitar, the analog pitches are all combined on a single signal. The pitch-to-midi device has to separate these notes through a Fourier analysis on the fly. This device has no way of knowing which string contributed it's pitch and can't separate it into individually assigned midi channels. A single midi channel is therefor used to send the various notes. Unfortunately, this means pitch bend data from multiple notes are all combined in a single channel which creates a garbled sound unless the synth is set to chromatic mode and disregards pitch bends altogether. Unfortunately, guitars are not a very stable source for precise pitch. Each note rises and drops in pitch as the string oscillates which triggers pitch bends even when not intended. Settings within the detection device can reduce this but it all takes extra time.

A hex pickup sends an individual signal for each string which allows 6 separate isolated pitch detection circuits. The pickup is supposed to be located very close to the bridge to eliminate most harmonics. This not only eliminates the composite Fourier Analysis issue from a mono source as mentioned above, but also eliminates the pitch bend garbling inherent to any single channel midi system. Each string is a separate midi channel and can have different sounds assigned.

Unless this software is amazingly fast and efficient, it will never touch the capabilities of a PROPERLY SETUP hex equipped rig. For those of you who have had bad experiences with hex gear, the secret is in the setup AND clean playing technique. It all has to be spot on to work well enough to play improvised solos and quick passages. Its not for folks that just want to plug and play. Things like hex pickup height, individual string gain, string gauge, neck action and fret buzz, tremolo and tuning stability, and synth settings all contribute to the usability/playability.

Also, ANY pitch to midi algorithm (besides AXON) must have a full cycle of the fundamental frequency to measure pitch. This means lower notes take longer. That's the physical constraint and technical hurdle. In the event that this software breaks that paradigm, I will be VERY excited....so lets hear those demos of fast solos played over a drum track. Anyone???

It's a whole other world!

bd

Quote from tylerhb

as far as i remember the ipad has a rather high latency compared to a native mac or pc. I tried it again today and i am heavily impressed...

With others apps (Garageband, Amplitube, etc.) the latency with the iPad is very good and similar to a Mac (few milliseconds). Btw I tried even the desktop version and the result is the same.

As I said: the project (and the technology behind!) is very interesting and impressive... You can use it with a regular guitar and create beautiful effects.
But for now, for normal playing there's a lot of latency and it misses to much notes on chords and when you play fast.
I don't want to start a useless war posting files with evident differences in terms of accuracy... but the "old" Roland technology (probably because of the six separate signal) is still far better... at least for now

But obviously you need specific hardware (a particular guitar or a special pickup and a Roland GR) so the comparison is unfair...

Quote from musicman65

A hex pickup sends an individual signal for each string which allows 6 separate isolated pitch detection circuits. The pickup is supposed to be located very close to the bridge to eliminate most harmonics. This not only eliminates the composite Fourier Analysis issue from a mono source as mentioned above, but also eliminates the pitch bend garbling inherent to any single channel midi system. Each string is a separate midi channel and can have different sounds assigned.

Unless this software is amazingly fast and efficient, it will never touch the capabilities of a PROPERLY SETUP hex equipped rig. For those of you who have had bad experiences with hex gear, the secret is in the setup AND clean playing technique. It all has to be spot on to work well enough to play improvised solos and quick passages. Its not for folks that just want to plug and play. Things like hex pickup height, individual string gain, string gauge, neck action and fret buzz, tremolo and tuning stability, and synth settings all contribute to the usability/playability.

Also, ANY pitch to midi algorithm (besides AXON) must have a full cycle of the fundamental frequency to measure pitch. This means lower notes take longer. That's the physical constraint and technical hurdle. In the event that this software breaks that paradigm, I will be VERY excited....so lets hear those demos of fast solos played over a drum track. Anyone???

Totally agree with you mate - I have the AXON AX100 (amazing product, really sad that they are not around anymore!) - and it's accuracy and speed is unparalleled (not to mention the plethora of other nifty features that it offers :)). Still, this looks like interesting tech. and would be curious to find out how it performs at speed and polyphonically.

Wow, thanks for the info musicman65, I am quite happy with my hex setup, but just tried this out of curiosity. I use a Roland GI-20 interface. Wish I bough the AXON a couple of years ago.

I am looking forward to the Fishman TriplePlay, looks like it has incredible tracking capabilities
http://www.bestofnamm.com/products/view/tripleplay