Lag when switching between rigs (Tech21 MIDI Moose)

  • I experience an annoying lag when switching between rigs with my Tech21 MIDI Moose controller. There are threads on this topic but it's full of people with the Behringer FCB and users with thousands of profiles.. I have less than 150 now and nothing has changed (I had about 400 before). I also use the latest OS, and set both the controller and the Kemper to MIDI Channel 1 instead of Omni, nothing changed. ;(


    We have a tour upcoming in March and I really want to use the Kemper but the delay/lag is too much. I tried predicting how long the lag is between changes and hitting the button earlier but that really does not work at all.


    So, how can I fix this - or is the MIDI section due for an update which fixes this issue, Mr.Kemper?

  • Most of the users are experiencing no lag (including myself with an old MC7 and before with an even older FC100), so I would assume it depends from the controller. If you can connect the controller to a PC there are plenty of freeware software that maps the messages sent out. Make sure he's not sending unnecessary stuff.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • Most of the users are experiencing no lag (including myself with an old MC7 and before with an even older FC100), so I would assume it depends from the controller. If you can connect the controller to a PC there are plenty of freeware software that maps the messages sent out. Make sure he's not sending unnecessary stuff.


    Thanks, I appreciate the help. Yeah I realize it seems to work for most users, but I also saw several threads pop up here with users complaining about the delay, and no solution yet.
    I just checked the Output of my MIDI Moose with MIDI-OX and it seems like everything is fine. :S


  • Thanks, I appreciate the help. Yeah I realize it seems to work for most users, but I also saw several threads pop up here with users complaining about the delay, and no solution yet.
    I just checked the Output of my MIDI Moose with MIDI-OX and it seems like everything is fine. :S

    I might be mistaken, but I might have been one of the people talking about delay when switching patches.....it ONLY occurs on start-up for me. After the first rig change, it's really fast. I'm using a VooDoo Labs Ground Control Pro.

  • The lag on the first switch happen to me as well, but that is not an issue. I assume the OP is having somthing similiar everytime he switch to another rig.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • same to me: the first press of the switch of a different profile than the actual on the kemper has the lag. other thatn that works like charm.


    of course when changing between profiles, sometimes something is still audible but that depends on the profile. of course if I switch between a high gain profile to something totally different in distortion and eq settings the kemper might take a tiny millisecond to calculate that might (might or not) be audible.


    overall, I could switch several times and in tight tempos with no lag whatsoever

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

  • I'm having the exact same problem with a Lexicon MPX-R1 MIDI footswitch, the lag between changing patches is like a half second or more, which renders the KPA basically useless for gigging with. My footswitch works flawlessly with every other piece of gear I own, so it's unlikely that it's the culprit. I have channel set to 1 on both devices, and no MIDI clock (turned it off because I thought it was causing the problem but it wasn't). Tried changing rigs using the front buttons, did a lot of patch changes via MIDI to see if the problem went away after a while but it didn't.


    Help please?

  • To me it seems to be specific to the combination. Have you any chance to try another controller?

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • I could, but shouldn't have to. MIDI is a *standard*, not some form of occult electronic art. And it wasn't invented yesterday either. If my device works with every other piece of gear I own and not with the KPA, it's pretty obvious where the flaw lies and IMHO it should be fixed ASAP. Sending and receiving program changes is as basic as music technology gets, if the KPA can't handle that effortlessly I will probably start to doubt the technical expertise of the manufacturer / developer. And just for the record, I am not a MIDIot - I have been connecting and configuring MIDI devices for decades now, so I kinda know what I'm doing.


    Or is everybody else also dealing with a half second lag between patch changes and pretending it doesn't exist?

  • I've been using some really old controllers (Roland, Digitech) with the KPA and have NO lag at all. There are at least 10 major acts touring at the moment with the Kemper and they have no problems. If everybody would have this issue nobody would be using it live (me neither). It is an issue but is not a generic Midi problem due to the Kemper, must be something specific to the combination of gear/ settings. Though I agree with you that it shouldn't be happening.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • If I may ask, which firmware version are you using? I'm on 1.54 (latest), maybe that's why I'm having problems? And I apologize if I sound a little harsh, it's just that I've got my KPA a little over a week ago and this is my first attempt at connecting it to my MIDI footswitch, I have a gig coming and I'm getting worried that it lacks the capacity for fast patch changes. Even though you've just told me it does, not having seen it even once gets me a bit edgy.

  • I'm actually on a yet to be released version (with some other people here I do beta testing) but it has never changed since the very first FW versions. I (and lot of other people here regularly gigging and touring) never had a problem with patch change. I don't deny that there is an issue (some other users have the same) but is not dependant only on the controller (several other users do not have issues with the same controller. Is the case of the Behringer) and definitely not only on the Kemper (most of the people do not have the problem regardless on the controller). The culprit must logically be somewhere in a specific combination of messages/channel/settings, but honestly I do not know where, otherwise all of you would know it as well. The issue is known to support but, AFAIK was not replicated yet.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • I experience an annoying lag when switching between rigs with my Tech21 MIDI Moose controller. There are threads on this topic but it's full of people with the Behringer FCB and users with thousands of profiles.. I have less than 150 now and nothing has changed (I had about 400 before). I also use the latest OS, and set both the controller and the Kemper to MIDI Channel 1 instead of Omni, nothing changed. ;(


    We have a tour upcoming in March and I really want to use the Kemper but the delay/lag is too much. I tried predicting how long the lag is between changes and hitting the button earlier but that really does not work at all.


    So, how can I fix this - or is the MIDI section due for an update which fixes this issue, Mr.Kemper?


    I use the Midi Moose and have no lag issues with program switching..

  • I have a boss fc-50 and a Line6 HD 500 both with tons of lag when switching rigs. :wacko:

    Yep, just gave my HD500 a go as a MIDI controller for the KPA and sure enough the lag is there. I've contacted support about this issue today but I don't expect them to get back to me in less than a few days because of the holidays, let's see how that develops - I'll post my findings in this thread.

  • Hi,
    I'm using a FCB1010/UNO 1.03 and KPA with firmware 1.5.4 and have no delay issues.
    My KPA is the white version and I bought it 2012-03-01.
    Does this midilag problem have anything to do with newer version of KPA ???
    Something changed in the production ???
    Just a thought

  • Maybe it could help if you record a small clip. Strum a chord and press the MIDI button. I am not sure if we all have the same idea about a "lag".


    I'm using a FC-50 and sometimes a FCB-1010. There is no difference between these to pedals in my case. I would not call it a "lag" but a (very) short and smooth "morphing" between the sounds. Other guys may call this a lag.


    While playing live I like this smooth morphing way more than the immediate switching of my former digital device. But it needs getting used to.

  • Maybe it could help if you record a small clip. Strum a chord and press the MIDI button. I am not sure if we all have the same idea about a "lag".


    I'm using a FC-50 and sometimes a FCB-1010. There is no difference between these to pedals in my case. I would not call it a "lag" but a (very) short and smooth "morphing" between the sounds. Other guys may call this a lag.


    While playing live I like this smooth morphing way more than the immediate switching of my former digital device. But it needs getting used to.


    I don't see it as "lag", but I see it as a serious issue, and that's what worries me. Whenever I change patch on my FCB1010 it changes instantly, but there's a 0.5s crossfade which makes it impossible to change smoothly between cleans and high gain patches. If it was a short lag but it changed instantly it would seem like a MIDI issue, but when there's a crossfade/morphing like that it doesn't really seem like a MIDI issue... If I change from a clean patch to a distorted patch, the first transient always disappears since the high gain sound "fades in". I play doom metal, and I often change from playing clean to playing long, distorted chords and vice versa. And when the sound doesn't change instantly the song changes don't work, and the Kemper becomes severely flawed.


    I'm worried that this is an issue with the Kemper but that people are disregarding it. When I change between similar-ish patches I'm not bothered by the morphing, but when I go from clean to high gain it annoys the hell out of me. Then again, there are lots of users which seem very knowledgable and say that switching is as effective as with a real amp, so I'm still hoping that there's something wrong with the MIDI switching.