Mics and Methods, For Profiling: advice/opinions

  • Hi All (-:
    I am coming up on some free time, and will finally get a chance to profile my amps.
    I have some Christmas $'s to spend, and am looking at mics for profiling.
    I already have 2 SM57's, a CAD M179, and a Palmer PDI-09 w/Ultimate Attenuator.


    My eyes are sore from reading threads about recording guitar cabs, at Gearslutz, Home Recording, TGP.
    I would like to get one more mic to pair with a SM57.
    From all my reading (bearing in mind these are lower cost choices), it boils down to one of these,


    Electro Voice ND468
    Electro Voice Cardinal
    Sennheiser e906
    Sennheiser E609
    Sennheiser MD 421
    MXL R144 Ribbon


    I will be using either 2 mics, or 1 mic plus the Palmer, going into a Mackie 1220i, then to KPA.
    I will experiment with different combinations, but have read that 1 mic plus the Palmer may yield the best results due to no phasing issues.


    On the recording forums, one of the most popular combos is the 57 and the 906, and for a single mic, the 421.
    I do not have a pro level studio, but I do have a well treated room w/proper isolation for the cabs.
    I am getting excited about this, and would welcome all advice, and opinions, on which mic may be the best addition.
    Plus opinions on the 3:1 rule, for 2 mics, and, front and back mic'ing, for open back combos.


    It may take me a while, but some good profiles (hopefully) will come from this.
    Then I can sell my amps, and buy the KPA II 8o
    Thanks,
    bert(-:
    amps profiled will be,
    Vintage 47 Oahu Tonemaster.
    1956 National 1220
    1969 Dual Showman(n/r head)
    (w/Marshall 1965b 4x10Celestion G10L-35s)
    Genz Benz BP30-112(4 EL-84)

    "I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him." ---Galileo Galilei.

    Edited once, last by imall41 ().

  • Armin, Andy and Tills should be able to give you some good tips. My tip is to use a single mic and play around with the position until you get a good sound, then profile with that position. There's a lot of voodoo out there about techniques and multiple mics, but this worked well for me when I went to recording studios. I tended to pull the mic back about six inches and then played around with the angle.


    If you're looking to get another mic a ribbon would be good. I would recommend a Beyer M160. Really looking forward to hearing some of the profiles of those great amps. Particularly looking forward to the 69 Showman.

  • This is from a Sound on Sound article on Steve Albini from 2005.



    Electric Guitars


    <img src="http://media.soundonsound.com/images/pcsBullet.gif" align="absmiddle" />Favourite microphones: Coles 4038, Royer 44/77, Neumann U67, Lomo 1909, Josephson E22p, various other condenser microphones.


    <img src="http://media.soundonsound.com/images/pcsBullet.gif" align="absmiddle" />Favourite preamps: Ampex 351, John Hardy M2, Neve 3115, B002, Massenburg 8400.


    "Normally I'll have two microphones on each
    cabinet, a dark mic and a bright mic, say a ribbon microphone and a
    condenser, or two different condensers with different characters. The
    idea is that you can adjust the balance until it sounds pretty much the
    way it does in the playing room. I point them straight to the middle of
    the speaker cone, the same distance away from the speakers, about 10 to
    12 inches. If it's a loud amplifier you don't want the microphone too
    close. If it's a clean, round sound, or a very bright sound, then I
    might use a vocal microphone.


    "For very distorted but very bright guitars I'll
    use a brighter mic preamp like the Ampex, but for heavier sounds or
    sounds with a very important bass content, I'll use the John Hardy, a
    Neve, or the Massenburg. I don't normally process the guitar while
    recording. If it doesn't sound right, I'll fix it by swapping or moving
    microphones, and then it goes straight to tape. I'll talk to the guitar
    player and ask him whether he's happy with the way his guitar sounds. If
    he's happy then I don't want to touch it. When I'm working on 16 tracks
    I'll submix the two guitar microphones before going to tape. With
    24-track, I try to leave them separate."

  • If you're looking to get another mic a ribbon would be good. I would recommend a Beyer M160.


    Thanks for the article in your last post, and yes, the Beyer M160, is mentioned quite often on the other forums I referenced, but is a tad out of my price range.(If I go for a higher priced mic, I guess ebay would be worth a shot).
    I have read quite a bit on mic placement, including Armin's posts. That will take a little experimentation, and as far as a mic pre, I'll just be using the Onyx in the Mackie, which are said to be decent enough.

    "I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him." ---Galileo Galilei.

    Edited 2 times, last by imall41 ().

  • Thanks for the article in your last post, and yes, the Beyer M160, is mentioned quite often on the other forums I referenced, but is a tad out of my price range.(If I go for a higher priced mic, I guess ebay would be worth a shot).
    I have read quite a bit on mic placement, including Armin's posts. That will take a little experimentation, and as far as a mic pre, I'll just be using the Onyx in the Mackie, which are said to be decent enough.

    Don´t worry. The Mackie pres are good enough. I used a simple VLZ1202 on all my cab files. Check out the thread if you like. I posted some infos there...


    Update 19.07.2012: TillS Cabinets - 1960 V30/T75 / Mesa Recto 4 x 12 / mixed / G12H30 cabs

  • I'd recommend working with the SM57 alone until you can get decent profiles, THEN worry about two microphones. I'd rather do a profile with one well placed mic than two blended that weren't good to begin with. My favorite starting point is SM57, straight, about an inch towards the edge where the dust cap edge is. You can also work with angling the SM57, etc...

  • Thanks Guys,
    I really appreciate the forum heavyweights (Armin,Doc,tylerhb,okstrat), posting with advice, and suggestions.
    I will start with the single SM57, so I have a reference point.
    Then I will try a single e906, and then both.
    Plus, I already have the Palmer 09, so I will try that also.
    Can't really afford the other mic suggestions, but that's why all your profiles are worth buying, and I have,thanks(-:

    "I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him." ---Galileo Galilei.

  • I can recommend the Superlux PRA 628 MKII as a secret weapon for miking your amps.
    It's more or less a clone of a Sennheiser E 606, and it costs only 39.- Euro.
    I got awesome results profiling my Marshall 6101 full stack with this mic and I like it much better than a SM57 for that purpose.

    Many Thx to Doc for this recommendation. I ordered it just for fun and it´s really nice. Shot only a few test profiles with, so far i would say it sounds better than a single SM57 with its nasty high mid hump. Also great in the mix with other mics. Try this: PRA 626 MKII on a v30, SM57 on a G12T75 and a Larger Condenser on a G12H30 and mix those :thumbup:

  • Many Thx to Doc for this recommendation. I ordered it just for fun and it´s really nice. Shot only a few test profiles with, so far i would say it sounds better than a single SM57 with its nasty high mid hump. Also great in the mix with other mics. Try this: PRA 626 MKII on a v30, SM57 on a G12T75 and a Larger Condenser on a G12H30 and mix those :thumbup:

    What would you recommend for micing a Celestion Alnico "Blue"? I have a 65Amps cab with one and a Scumback M55 with a 55hz cone. The cab sounds superb with the 65Amps London, and I'd love to profile it before selling it.

  • Many Thx to Doc for this recommendation. I ordered it just for fun and it´s really nice. Shot only a few test profiles with, so far i would say it sounds better than a single SM57 with its nasty high mid hump. Also great in the mix with other mics. Try this: PRA 626 MKII on a v30, SM57 on a G12T75 and a Larger Condenser on a G12H30 and mix those :thumbup:


    Great to hear they work for you, Till!
    :thumbsup:


  • What would you recommend for micing a Celestion Alnico "Blue"? I have a 65Amps cab with one and a Scumback M55 with a 55hz cone. The cab sounds superb with the 65Amps London, and I'd love to profile it before selling it.

    I´m no expert on Alnicos like And44 is. If you want to capture a little more realistic picture perhaps try a condenser or something else with a rather flat frequency curve and use a little more distance. The SM57 on the other side does a lot of colouring which can be cool if you rather dial in a more scooped rock or metal sound.

  • +1 on the Cascade Fathead, incredible mic for the price, puts a good ribbon mic in your collection.


    Check out Jay Graydon's 32-part series on recording guitar - there's lots of great stuff there (see link below). Check out the articles on mic placement, "Dialing in ..." for tips on eq'ing, and "Using 2 or more mics ..." for placement tips to avoid comb filtering.


    Some people don't believe in eq'ing when creating profiles or IRs but the closer your profile is to your ideal sound the less tweaking you'll do when using with the profile - accuracy isn't always the goal if you can get a profile that sounds better than your amp. Shoot some profiles without EQ to get the mic position correct then look at Jay Gradon's EQ tips to see where you could improve the results based on what you're hearing, or not hearing,in the profile.


    Scroll down to the "Art of Recording" section.
    Jay Graydon - The Art of Recording

  • After I read Alan Parson saying he liked putting the SM57 about 12" from the grill, I started doing that and got way better recordings.


    I use a ribbon about 3 feet away. I have a Fat Head II with a Lundahl transformer. It's a cheap man's ribbon, but it's sturdy (I dropped it and it works fine, aluminum ribbon)


    When I get to that point for Mic's, I'll get a Royer 121 which is pretty standard from what I read.


    I've also heard Greg V using an MXL V69 about 5 feet back on his Tungsten Crema Wheat demo playing a Nolatone which sparkles just amazingly for jangly clears.


    I've tried my Neumann TLM 103 and it is just too sensitive for the room for an amp, so scratch that one.


    But I have 2 amps to profile and maybe in the future, someone else's who invites me. So it doesn't make sense to invest in so much for a high end mic for the guitar since I'll be recording with the Kemper. I want to save my money for vocal mics.


    My one hope is that Kemper can profile voices next! ;)