no frequency content above 11kHz?

  • Hi all - I'm researching amp modeler to buy and considering Kemper. But I saw this in a competitor product forum that concern me. Can one of the knowledgeable members confirm if this is correct? Or if it even matter?

    "Kemper's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz. This means there is no frequency content above 11 kHz and everything above that is aliasing noise. If you have good hearing (i.e. young) you will probably pick up on this more readily.


    It does sound better than many other products, especially at lower gains where the aforementioned limitation is not as critical." [quote from competitor product]

  • per's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz. This means there is no frequency content above 11 kHz and everything above that is aliasing noise. If you have good hearing (i.e. young) you will probably pick up on this more readily.


    It does sound better than many other products, especially at lower gains where the aforementioned limitation is not as critical." [quote from competitor product]

    That is a bunch of lies from a fractal audio. The guy has no idea what he is talking about. Basically that is it. :thumbdown:

  • Hi all - I'm researching amp modeler to buy and considering Kemper. But I saw this in a competitor product forum that concern me. Can one of the knowledgeable members confirm if this is correct? Or if it even matter?


    "Kemper's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz. This means there is no frequency content above 11 kHz and everything above that is aliasing noise. If you have good hearing (i.e. young) you will probably pick up on this more readily.


    It does sound better than many other products, especially at lower gains where the aforementioned limitation is not as critical." [quote from competitor product]


    brusky, take a look in this thread, Cliff is proven wrong again.
    http://www.kemper-amps.com/for…below-LOW-even-for-Cliff/?


    From the first start Cliff has been very irritated about the kemper and throws first punches and lies about it. He's trying hard to polarize and make users doubt a competitive product. Some of his posts have been deleted on TGP but he continues to behave in this strange way on his own fractal forum.
    It really is a parody and sad to see Cliff Chase's lack of business ethics as a company CEO.
    It's counterproductive and all would benefit if he only focused on product development and left the PR to others. Let's hope he develops a new axe firmware with built in ethics and CEO aggression control.

  • Thanks guys and as you can tell I am new to research both of these. Some of the other fanboi comments from that thread:

    1) KPA is convenient for studio to profile a tone. but Axe-FX is a actual modeler to create your own sound. I don't get it. I though both were amp modeler?

    2) KPA effects are ok but not as many effects or chain flexibility

    I want to like the KPA better, especially with the rack coming out. Are these just fanboi comments trying to cast doubt without facts?

  • Whatever unique 'sound' the Axe-FX can "create" after delving into a dozen menus & sub menus, the Kemper can "create" on it's front panel.


    Yes, they're both modellers, difference is, us Kemper owners "Model" our own amps, we don't wait for our creator to model & choose amps for us.


    I guess you're buying the Kemper. :thumbup:

  • Are these just fanboi comments trying to cast doubt without facts?

    Well, they started their vaporware comments 12 months before the Kemper even released, so, yes, I would say they attempted to cast doubts without facts....now they just "copymodel" the facts. :D

  • Hi all - I'm researching amp modeler to buy and considering Kemper. But I saw this in a competitor product forum that concern me. Can one of the knowledgeable members confirm if this is correct? Or if it even matter?

    "Kemper's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz. This means there is no frequency content above 11 kHz and everything above that is aliasing noise. If you have good hearing (i.e. young) you will probably pick up on this more readily.


    It does sound better than many other products, especially at lower gains where the aforementioned limitation is not as critical." [quote from competitor product]


    Hi brusky,


    let me try to explain in other words. :)


    The KPA takes a high-res photo of a landscape at a certain time of day, at a certain weather situation, in a certain season.
    The resulting image will look exactly like the real scene ... and you can of course add some color correction and image effects afterwards.


    The other amp modellers can not take a photo, they have to use some drawing and painting techniques to recreate the scene as a more or less photo-realistic painting. As you can imagine, this way you can't create a 100% perfect representation of the real scene in a given moment. But if you have lots of skills, you can of course get a beautiful painting. It's just not 100% accurate realism. And if you're a good artist, you can mix photo-realism with other painting and drawing techniques to create an amazing painting that doesn't even try to be 100% photo-realistic "only".


    Now I think it just depends on you, what you're looking for.
    I for one can achieve effects in many many ways. But it has been impossible to me before to get this extraordinary realism, the KPA can provide. And I can't tell you how much I enjoy this every single day since I own the KPA. :)


    Cheers,
    Martin

  • That is good analogy. For the more visually inclined.


    You can paint yourself (modellers) or have potentially all good painters that can be tracked down throughout all of history at your disposal (Kemper profiler).


    Killer ready-made paintings without any stroke of your paintbrush = Instant bliss and hours of playing till it hurts


    :D

  • I imagine that Cliff's findings were correct for the test that he ran, however, when running the KPA with amp and cab engaged (which I don't believe that he did) you certainly get frequencies above 11khz.

  • I imagine that Cliff's findings were correct for the test that he ran, however, when running the KPA with amp and cab engaged (which I don't believe that he did) you certainly get frequencies above 11khz.


    Thats also what I have measured.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

  • I'd say buy the KPA and use the return period to make sure it's what you want. Nothing to lose and much to gain. I love both of my KPAs ! :thumbup:

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • Hey brusky,


    to answer your second post, I believe the Axe-FX gives you more control over the final sound. To go on with the visual analogy, it's like a painter, who has got the freedom to modify what he's painting in many ways. And certainly the Axe has got more fx and by far more evolute routing possibilities (which increases the sound editing power), not to mention the possibility to run 2 amps in parallel (which seems to appeal many).
    Also consider the KPA has more room for improvements, since it's still at an early age.


    Facts to weight:

    • most musicians are hit by the realistic feeling they get when playing the KPA;
    • depending on where you live, the difference in price between the two units might be important;
    • with the KPA you have the freedom to choose the head form factor or the rack mounting. Do not underestimate the former, many musicians have discovered that it's exceptionally convenient and would not come back.
    • are you amazed by any of the characteristics of the KPA?
    • would you be missing any of the Axe characteristics?

    Final point, you should give yourself the opportunity to try both the units, for - IMO - at lest 15 days each, as if each was the unit you already bought.


    To help you better evaluate the KPA, I'd suggest you to read at least the first chapter (Where To Start From ?) of this document.


    HTH :)

  • 2) KPA effects are ok but not as many effects or chain flexibility


    It's certainly true the AxeFX has more FX and routing flexibility. I'd say the FX the KPA does have range from good to excellent. My only gripes about the existing FX are that some of them lack flexibility (for example, you can't set the speed of the Rotary Speaker, you can only choose between Slow and Fast) and the 2 distortion stompboxes that I work with the most (Big Muff, Fuzz Face) can be tricky to dial in, although I think I've finally got them under control using a Compressor in front of the Big Muff and the Pure Boost in front of the Fuzz Face. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get the Phaser Vibe sim to sound like a real Univibe, but hopefully it's just a matter of time.

  • Thanks guys - I am leaning KPA so far. Based on the clips samples compare, the sounds seem more realistic. I connect direct to PA and goal is lightest compact rig to transport. So is "frequencies above 11kHZ" an issue if you direct out, no stage amp, speakers?


  • 1) KPA is convenient for studio to profile a tone. but Axe-FX is a actual modeler to create your own sound. I don't get it. I though both were amp modeler?
    2) KPA effects are ok but not as many effects or chain flexibility



    1)
    Clone an Amp:
    -------------------
    AxeFx:
    In the AxeFx you depend on the amp models provided by the manufacturer.
    The latest version of the AxeFx features some matching options to match real amp tones closer - but IMHO it's not this easy and accurate as the Kemper.


    Kemper:
    Allmost perfect match



    EQ Match
    -------------
    The AxeFx has a great feature to match the tone of a recorded guitar track.
    KPA can't do it



    Use of IR's
    --------------
    Both units can use speaker impulses - the AxeFx out of the box - the KPA via a new toolkit.



    Amp Tweaking
    -------------------
    If you don't like what you get from the AxeFx (or like to try something new) then your have A LOT of parameters to tweak - by this can you get closer to your dream tone - or spend a lot of time and tweak instead of playing the guitar.


    The KPA has only a few but easy and powerful parameters to tweak an amp or cabinet sound.



    2)
    Effect quality and tweak ability
    -------------------------------------
    The effects and the quality of the effects in the Kemper are great sounding and easy to use - there are even dedicated knobs for common parameters - to tweak while playing.
    If you like to deep edit the effects - all fine with the Kemper.


    The effects and even the amp parameters can not be tweaked this easy on the AxeFx - you need to dive (deep) into the menus and submenus of the AxeFx.




    Effect routing
    -----------------
    The number of effects and routing options in the AxeFx are WAY more advanced then in the Kemper.
    Kemper has max 4 effects before the amp and max 4 effects after it (the last two delay and reverb are at a fix position).


    AxeFx has a 4x12 matrix, you can run effects in all kinds of combinations - much more options.


    If you just like some wah, compressor, distortion, chorus, delay, reverb and stuff like this - then the KPA's effects are fine - but if you want more than one delay or reverb effect at once or strange routing options - then the AxeFx is better.
    AxeFx can e.g. use a SpringReverb and a room effect at the same time.



    Missing effects
    -------------------
    The AxeFx effect repository is almost perfect - all kinds of effects are available.


    The number of effects in the KPA has increased but there are still some basic things missing:


    1) No Spring Reverb effect
    2) (Generic) Amp Stack (EQ) always after the amp (AxeFx has many stack types and can be set before or after the amp block)
    3) No pitch effects
    4) Only one delay effect (an this one can't be placed before the amp)





    ..... so if you compare the features - then the AxeFx is the clear winner.
    I have owned an AxeFx Ultra and the AxeFx II - now I use the Kemper - and the reason is the IMHO much better amp sound.
    ... still hoping that some missing effects/options will be added in the future.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Edited once, last by Armin ().