I think I've just solved the 1.60 tone difference mystery

  • Can anyone please confirm this, the culprit seems to be the "Mute Signal" in the Tuner mode. When engaged, for some reason, it changes the KPA tone for the worse making it sound brittle and harsh and losing all dynamic response. It sounds like a (ugh) Line6 POD then. I've tested it with a really bright pickup (bridge DiMarzio Virtual Solo on my Strat), it's possible that with different pickups the difference is less apparent.


    The reason why a System Reset solves the problem is because it disengages that option.

  • I think you might be right. My 52 year old ears really struggled to hear any difference at first using my Les Paul and a variety of rigs, but then I selected a cornford crunch rig and using my bridge pickup noticed a slight dullness when playing a riff on the 5th and 6th strings up near the 12th fret when I had tuner mute switched on. I got my wife to help me with a blind test and I scored 100% after 10 goes using the same riff. If my old ears can hear a difference then there might be something for the Kemper engineers to investigate. However, it would be a very basic programming error if this is the cause, which makes it a bit unlikley I feel.


    Edit : Tried again with fresh ears and failed the blind test miserably! Really could not hear any difference this time. :whistling:

  • First of all I never did a system reset (didn't had the problem). I've just tried switching the mute on/off with about 30 different rigs and there is absolutely no difference. It could be still a symptom of the bug, though. Have you perform a reset to check if the difference disappear?


    Edit: I even used 3 different guitars with SC, HB and P90, in all positions. I agree that is worth an investigation if you hear it.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • Can anyone please confirm this, the culprit seems to be the "Mute Signal" in the Tuner mode


    Do you turn the KPA on by setting the chickenhead to Browser? Does it help to move once to "Profiler" mode and back? Can you reproduce the "bad" behaviour again somehow?


    Timo

  • I am able to reproduce the behavior by turning the unit on in browse mode, then going to tuner and checking the mute button. Performing this procedure back and forth a few times shows the difference pretty clearly with my guitar and a crunch rig. BTW my input section is *not* locked if it makes any difference.


    EDIT: Seems every time I turn the KPA on it's in "harsh" mode. I have to turn to tuner, press the mute switch, go back to browse, go back to tuner, uncheck mute and then it will sound "right". Weird I know, but I've repeated this over and over and the results have been consistent.

  • Ok, looks like you've find something. Let's leave it a couple of days with Timo and Don and wait for CK to be back from LA.
    BTW, I also find a couple of rigs where I can hear some change

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • I was one of the guys with 1.6 versions feelying, playing problems. So I have tryied to simulate Your "Tuner mute butons" action, but without results in changes of the sound. Today I,m will trying a few times again., because I use mute option too in Tuner mode, and I,m interessed about the results.

  • me neither: no difference....................I did a reset not because my sound was changed (I use and44 plexis), but to get rid of all doubts. indeed the sound was identical and realize the mute in the tuner was disabled. engaged but my sound was devastating as usual. I even did a gig yesterday and the sound was unbelievable..........

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

  • Just out of curiosity, which output are you using? I'm thinking this is kinda important, I only use the monitor out because when playing live I'll feed the main outs to FOH.


    Another thing that's probably worth mentioning, the first time I used the tuner after upgrading to 1.60 I noticed it had the "mute" switch off and switched it on so I could tune silently. When I got back to browse mode I immediately noticed the sound was different. Whenever something like this happens I always try playing harder, softer and play with the volume control to make sure it's not my ears playing tricks on me. So when I tried to raise the master volume nothing happened, so I kept turning the knob up when I noticed it was already on 10.0 and still the same volume. Weird. Eventually I managed to get it working again, don't remember exactly how.


    Reamping from my side might be a problem, I haven't got the KPA set up for recording yet, I was hoping to have it working with my Eleven Rack through S/PDIF but no luck so far, it says the digital clock from the KPA is "invalid or none". So it might take a while before I can do this right, it'd probably be better if someone else who's experiencing the problem did it.


    But I'll tell you this, the difference is quite noticeable without the need for reamping, and I agree with CK's statement that playing at different times through the same rig might sound different, but if the switching takes only a few seconds and the test is done back and forth with the same results, I don't know...


    Which leads me to this thought: if it's definitely noticeable by me and a few other users and not noticeable to others, could it be that our units came from a bad batch? Just thinking outloud here. Of course in order to be sure that it doesn't happen to every unit we should go back to using the same output, which is the monitor out. Also a very important point is, I have my monitor out connected to a FRFR speaker (QSC K10), I suspect that users connecting their KPAs to the FX return of a guitar amp will *not* experience this problem.


    So to sum things up: if you're not hearing the difference between tuner mute engaged/disengaged, make sure you connect the monitor out to a full range speaker.

  • Ok Don, even that is going to take some time as my only working interface right now is the Eleven Rack (with Pro Tools LE 8.05), and it's going to be a really busy week, hope you don't mind waiting until the weekend.