In Search of the Holy Grail, Part III (Carlos the Great)

    In Search of the Holy Grail Tone of Carlos Santana


    And here is where the real trouble begins ...
    Carlos Santana is the reason why i listened to the guitar in the first place, he is the reason why i changed
    from tenor saxophone to guitar in 1990. and while my playing satisfies me often, i am a total jerk when it comes
    to my favourite guitar player. i have tried ANYTHING. 13 amps, the KPA, 10 different guitars, not even close.
    it is embarrassing!
    i can play a decent EUROPA (earth' cry - heaven's smile) with the Pitbull {by Kilian Blees}
    but i achieve nothing, no thing, niente, nada, nothing at all when i want to play only the first 8 bars of
    Santana featuring Chad Kroeger - Into the Night
    i mean i can play the notes but it sounds like sh... really. why is it so difficult to achieve a tone like the master from tijuana?
    is it magic? or what? i am sure that some of you are not as stoopid as me and are able to tell where to start ...
    i am totally at a loss here and it is very importante to me, because i know that "my sound" aka my holy grail will sound
    similar to this one. (of carlos' into the night tone). not identical, but similar.


    thanx a lot

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Hi Geraldo, I have the same problem searching for the great Carlos tone.
    For me it is not a matter of Amp choosen (the one proposed from Guitarnet is very good for example), but more on the effect part, I don't understand what he exactly use ... wha wha, auto wha, phaser???? ... all together??? and so on, also he use I believe the tone of the guitar, closing the highs in some parts.


    Any advice will be really appreciated, I will give it anyway a try in the future, I have the same passion for Carlos as you!

    I'm a great fan of CS, too. I've reached nice results using PRS Dragon II Pickups (at first in bridge position) as a mean component of his sound and the Mesa Boogie rigs from the KPA (similar to the models Carlos was/is on). Also KPA-rigs taken from the Axe-FX-Mesa-Boogies.
    That's all I need - but I'm not a 110% purist.

    There is a Boogie MKIIc from the factory rigs (don't recall the name right now). This Boogie (Combo) was fitted with a Jensen speaker. This is great for cleans but not so great for a typical Boogie lead (=Santana) sound. I paired that amp with one of the cabs from the MKV profiles on Rig Exchange. Together that sounds pretty much like a typical Boogie (lead) sound.


    Santana also used a Dumble so the Fux factory profiles might be a good match as well.


    But don't forget the guitar. The PRS that Carlos uses sounds a bit different from the standard PRS's. Not only is the construction different, the PUs are also different from what PRS uses today. The Santana PUs are on the dark side with higher output and that contributes much to the sound, regardless of the amp you would use for his sound.

    He also has an active preamp in the guitar, and don't forget the HUGE pick and his old mexican hands....

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    thank you very much for your comments


    i will try your sugestions later today and tell you about it


    by the way - i liked his tone the best in the mid seventies when he still used the yamaha (??)
    on the contrary to common opinion i think that by using the PRS his sound became a lit bittle
    thinner and lost some of its "flesh", bt this is only for old dogs like me ... :D
    but this "into the night" intro tone: this indeed are those old mexican hands in action, guitarnet :thumbup:

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Quote from Geraldo7


    but this "into the night" intro tone: this indeed are those old mexican hands in action, guitarnet :thumbup:


    Doesn't he use a coin as a pick as well? I think I've heard that somewhere. If he does, that contributes much to the attack he has. It's all part of the equation, it's not only the amp.

    i have seen carlos 3 times, one time in a concert hall of only 2000
    my drum teacher was the mixer and i sat (give or take x) 5 meters away from
    wayne shorter and carlos and ...
    no - he uses his fingers and a pick which seemed pretty much Standard
    but you are right everything is part of the equation
    i have FINALLY found a satisfying tone with the
    Tupelo crunch +
    yahoo! 8)

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    To get the later Santana tone I do a few things ...


    First, I mic it up with a studio condensor mic. Santana uses a Shure KSM32, I just have a Samson C01 which is way cheaper (but is a great mic).


    Second, on that intro he is probably on the middle pickup position with the tone rolled back quite a bit.


    Third, I use a Ceriatone OTS50 going into a Cannibis Rex speaker. Santana's newer tones use hemp cone speakers and Dumbles (the Ceriatone is a Dumble copy). The C-Rex has a darker full tone that is good for Santana sounds. You can see his Dumble in the video of the song you're looking for. Santana uses Tone Tubbies but I am not going to pay for those ...


    Finally, I'm using a PRS Santana SE, one of the newer ones that actually looks like a Santana guitar, not the older SEs that look like I don't know what. Obviously the more expensive PRS Signature models will get you there too, but the current Santana SEs get you there on the cheap. They are quite a bargain.


    I've profiled my Ceriatone and just uploaded it. Look for Ceriatone OTS50 v3 Daddo.


    When set right (might need a touch more gain) it is touch sensitive. Brighter when you pick harder. Notes have a bit of bloom to them, they are not just one-dimensional. I would turn the delay effect off ... I have it set a bit high.


    His older classic tones are Boogie Mark 1 going into Altec 417 speakers (and though I have a Mark 1 and Altec 417, there are no Mark 1's currently in the Rig Exchange and I haven't profiled mine yet). But newer tones are definitely Dumbles. The Altec speakers have a lot of brightness to them and the hemp cone speakers are way more mellow.

    I grabbed a backing track for that song and recorded some licks with my setup so you can hear whether I approach the Santana tone or not.


    Sorry but I don't think the Tupelo Crunch+ profile you mentioned is there for this purpose, personally. (Not that it is bad, I just don't think it is in Santana territory.) I like my Ceriatone profile a lot better (even if it only got a two star average rating from two voters). :)


    I didn't change anything from my profile except to shut the tape delay effect off. And I'm using my PRS Santana SE on middle pickup position with the tone rolled down to around 2 or 3. No processing was done, it went straight into ProTools and straight out once mixed with the backing track. I think Santana was probably turned down a little more than me ...


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/edbqacz5su2g9nx/SantanaTest.mp3

    thank you mike for all your info and effort :thumbup:
    i was busy elsewhere, i am going to check your profile asap

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    while i am @ 98% with joe b., i am total failure when it comes to carlos
    you can convince yourself here, no matter which profile i use. must be those old mexican hands.
    the only profile i sound acceptable with is my favourite one, a plexi by MiLLA

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Geraldo, can you or someone help me to understand which effects is using here Santana???
    I'm trying to cover this great one...


    Solo starting from 2.22...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=tAL0yG-hHkM


    I know ... are the hands for sure... but is he using some phaser?? auto-wha effects?? something like that?


    8|?(;(