Does the quality of the preamp/mic yield different profiling results?

  • Hi, I am a newbie to the Kemper. So please forgive the basic questions. I just did my first profile with an AKG C-414 and a basic preamp that just supplied phantom power for the mic. I am happy with the results. My first question is does a higher end preamp give you better results? Also does using a high end microphone like a AKG C414 matter? Or are most people getting the same results with an SM57?
    I guess I am trying to understand this approach. Should I treat the profiling like I am recording a guitar signal for a song? Using a high-end preamps and mics? Or a more basic approach? Does it matter for profiling?


    Thank you for any insight.


    Jamie

  • From all I have read, everything in the profiling signal chain matters. The amp matters the most, then how it is mic'd, The quality and character of the mic and pre help shape the response during profiling. Some prefer an SM57's character....others opt for a better mic/pre. I've used an SM57 with good results but I'm sure a better mic would capture the amp more accurately. Some even blend multiple mics when profiling.


    bd

  • Yes, you specifically want to approach it like recording - if the mic doesn't "hear" the sound you want, it will not be in the profile.


    But, that has little or nothing to do with preamp quality. No preamp is needed to profile, if you use a dynamic mic or have a phantom power box for a condensor mic.


    The positions of the knobs on the amplifier, the type and amount of Refining, and Mic placement are all much more important than the perceived quality of the mic preamp.


    If you have a preamp set to get a specific type of distortion or frequency response, that would be reflected in the profile.


    Any subtle differences between two "clean" mic preamps wouldn't likely have much, if any impact on the profile.


    I know of at least one person who has made some of the the most highly regarded amp and cabinet profiles, and used a mini Behringer mixer to mix multiple mics when he made them. It provides dual phantom power, input trims, and is an integrated mic/line mixer.

  • There is the golden rule "shit in shit out' - so you can use the best mic and preamps - if the amp and cabinet sounds bad - then all you capture is this bad sound.


    On the other hand (if the amp and cabinet are both great and fit together) - then IMHO the mic placement is the most important one, then the number and type of mic's itself and the least important one is the mic pre (I know that manufactures of mic preamps will tell something different).


    A large room with little reflections and the possibility to profile loud helps a lot too (but this is not gear IMHO).


    I see no need to color the sound with mic preamps or external EQ's - since this can be done later via the KPA's internal EQ blocks - I prefer to capture the amp/speaker as faithful as possible - but that may only be my way.

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  • Expensive Mic Pres often compress the signal which might even be contraproductive when aiming for a dynamic profiling signal. If you don´t already own such a device i would say that the money is better spent on mics or decent studio monitors.


    No preamp would compress the sound, unless a compressor is active.

  • I'm a pretty crappy profiler, but recently I learned pickups make a huge difference. I was trying to profile a 5150 with an axis guitar and it would just not profile. I switched up the microphone and the guitar and it came out 100% better.

  • Answer: YES
    1) Key thing is mic placement. Two Mics definitely sound better than one. I combine with a Y-splitter through 2 preamps.
    2) Preamp quality is a plus. Preamps pairing with a microphone is like paring a guitar with an amplifier.
    3) Tweaking the Kemper (ie if the profile doesn't have as much low end, or mids as the reference amp, etc)
    4) What guitar you use while "refining" affects how other different pickups in guitars will sound through it.


    So Ideally you'd do a particular amp setting to a few different guitars if you want to be a stickler about it.

  • 1) Key thing is mic placement. Two Mics definitely sound better than one. I combine with a Y-splitter through 2
    4) What guitar you use while "refining" affects how other different pickups in guitars will sound through it.


    So Ideally you'd do a particular amp setting to a few different guitars if you want to be a stickler about it.


    1) +1, Mic placement is extremely important, 1/2 inch makes a huge difference, also the surrounding reflections. More mics give more color options, but I find that one mic can be just as good or bad as two or more.


    4) As I understand it, it doesn't matter at all what guitar or pickups are used when refining.
    Yes, using a stratocaster or a les paul affect how we adjust the amp controls to get a desired sound. It's normal to set the amp controls different for different guitars and pickups. A profile taken with a low output single coil guitar will sound different when played with a high output humbucker guitar.
    But when the desired sound is set and a profile is taken it shouldn't matter what guitar or pickups are used during the refining process.
    I think C.Kemper mentioned this about refining in one thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.


    Here is a recent video I found showing two different guitars with different tunings used to profile an amp with the same settings. They don't focus on the refining part in the video though or use a more dynamic sound which would have been interesting.


    Kemper Profiling Amp - Same Amp with different Guitars
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  • No preamp would compress the sound, unless a compressor is active.

    Many tube preamps do, especially when driven a little harder. The goal of increased "warmth" when tracking vocals is often nothing but a bit of compression while taming some high end frquencies and transients. As some orientation guide i like this chart:


    [Blocked Image: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5902643/PreampColor.jpg]

  • I would call this saturation, rather than compression.


    How can a chart like this be true at different saturation levels?
    I wonder how a "transparent" preamp will sound transparent, when driven hard.

  • I would call this saturation, rather than compression.


    How can a chart like this be true at different saturation levels?
    I wonder how a "transparent" preamp will sound transparent, when driven hard.

    Agreed, saturation would be a more correct word. Nonetheless it will alter the dynamics. From my understanding, getting the microphone signal as clean as possible into the KPA makes sense.


    Btw, what about the idea of a "profiling microphone preamp"??? :P Maybe the KPA technology could already do this...