Moving and abusing the POST slots. Let them run free...

  • Morning all...
    First off, many thanks for the recent update - my favourite one so far. :thumbup:
    This has probably been requested before but hey ho.


    Request : Could we please get the ability to open up delay and reverb slots to allow different configurations and FX
    WHY? Well... I'll limit myself to 3 (ish) suggestions.


    1. You can use an external looper and place it at the end of the chain in the FX loop. Currently you'd lose the delay and reverb signal in your loops. By placing it last you'd gather up the entire signal chain and be able to use the KPA headphone output. Just shift the reverb and delay down one slot if you want them in the looper as well...


    2. You could place a noise gate at the end of the chain to tidy up any noise but I'm probably just an anal noise fiend. (Good name for a band?)


    3. If you have external delays and reverbs it would free up these slots for other KPA lovelies... also, are people using reverb live? Perhaps...perhaps not.


    3b. (It's still 3) This would allow some groovy things to be done with the groovy KPA delays like using two of them, or using them pre-amp... processor allowing of course. I don't wanna cause the thing to melt.


    Ok - just a thought and a yet another diversion away from me writing school reports.
    Let me know if you can think of other uses for this - I'm sure the rocket scientists here will have lots of ideas more cleverer than mine 8)
    Cheers.

    Suhr Classic Pro, Fender deluxe Strat & Baja Tele, Gibson ES335, Ibanez S Prestige 2170FW, Eastman AR371CE, Variax JTV > KPA > Patch bay inc. Strymons (Mobius, Timeline, Blue Sky), H9 Max, TC Triple Delay, & POD HD500 > Adam A7Xs

  • + 1


    4. add a software switch for every stomp or effect slot where you can choose the position of the effect ( pre or post stack and order e.g. "Post 1" or "Pre 6").
    I defenitly want to use more post effects.

  • Well... hopefully it would be the case that while things were in the current 'default' mode, the spill over would remain. If engaging the 'abuse slots' function meant the spillover no longer 'spilled' I would take that trade off for the added functionality. I reserve the right to think again if the trade offs become more fiendish...


    Interesting question though Will - you thinking about potential memory constraints or the special nature of delays and reverbs? Or something else...

    Suhr Classic Pro, Fender deluxe Strat & Baja Tele, Gibson ES335, Ibanez S Prestige 2170FW, Eastman AR371CE, Variax JTV > KPA > Patch bay inc. Strymons (Mobius, Timeline, Blue Sky), H9 Max, TC Triple Delay, & POD HD500 > Adam A7Xs

  • Putting Reverb (and Delay) in other slots may (or may not?) concern spillover. But putting other effects into these slots (say an EQ in the Delay slot) certainly does not.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • Well... hopefully it would be the case that while things were in the current 'default' mode, the spill over would remain. If engaging the 'abuse slots' function meant the spillover no longer 'spilled' I would take that trade off for the added functionality. I reserve the right to think again if the trade offs become more fiendish...


    Interesting question though Will - you thinking about potential memory constraints or the special nature of delays and reverbs? Or something else...


    My bet as to why the reverb and delay are isolated is that it is directly correlated to allowing spill over. Essentially, those effects are processed separately to allow then to remain engaged briefly while a secondary preset is loaded. In the GSP1101, Digitech dedicated an entire 2nd processor to accomplish this, I imagine it is resource hungry on the KPA as well. I recall CK stating they were working on a stomp delay which we'll likely see at some point.


    in regards to the question I posted, I would never invest in a unit which didn't have a spillover feature at this point. As far as a pre post switch, also not interested at all. If they can allow some type of graphical piece which places the effect within the chain at any user defined position ala POD HD500 then +1. However, I've rarely found myself wishing for another spot pre or post and I consider myself a pretty aggressive user of effects.

  • Interesting post Will. For me the option for flexibility is always a good thing... people use effects in a myriad of bewildering ways :)


    I've got my pedals wired up via the KPA effect loop into a patchbay as I find it gives me more of that flexibility I mentioned.
    I ran into problems trying to balance the output levels of 'Monitor Out' & 'Direct Out' when using them as a stereo pair. Currently you can only assign this in the mod slot.
    In this configuration it would be great to place a noise gate after the external loop as this does tend to introduce some additional noise into the signal chain.
    Then there's those people using a looper and wanting to include the KPA delay and reverb in the chain - placing the effect loop last would be an useful option.


    However, I wouldn't want to encroach on the current functionality and I don't think it needs to - your suggestion of a POD HD-like model would work well here I think.
    I think there is some room to manoeuvre with the slots that a lot of users would find... useful 8)

    Suhr Classic Pro, Fender deluxe Strat & Baja Tele, Gibson ES335, Ibanez S Prestige 2170FW, Eastman AR371CE, Variax JTV > KPA > Patch bay inc. Strymons (Mobius, Timeline, Blue Sky), H9 Max, TC Triple Delay, & POD HD500 > Adam A7Xs


  • I would agree to error on the side of flexibility. However, as many who were previous HD500 users can tell you, there's a point at which the extra complexity introduced becomes more of a burden than strength. I'm in no way implying that my opinions should be all's opinions, simply making discussion.

  • Yep, I guess that's the nature of the suggestions section here - if everything got implemented a new user who hadn't been along for the ride might well find their head melting... Still, we're some way off the complexities of the great black box which shall not be named.


    I still have my HD500 actually - although I never tried to use it without the editor (Ah... another unmentionable).
    I think the trick CK has pulled so far is to keep the appearance of simplicity whilst allowing the more "gear curious" (New sexual preference?) to dig into the deeper parameters. From what I've seen so far I think he'll continue to walk that line. The ducking features and customs scales are a good example of this I believe - present, but not in the way.
    Will the added features cause the unit to collapse under unnnessary complexity? I'm guessing slot. 8)

    Suhr Classic Pro, Fender deluxe Strat & Baja Tele, Gibson ES335, Ibanez S Prestige 2170FW, Eastman AR371CE, Variax JTV > KPA > Patch bay inc. Strymons (Mobius, Timeline, Blue Sky), H9 Max, TC Triple Delay, & POD HD500 > Adam A7Xs

  • I've pointed out in a previous thread that those x and mod slots are a bit different than the Pre slots. There is something odd that happens with volume settings on any stomps that you put in post amp in the sense that they are not independent of one another. this obviously means that the behavior of these slots is very much unnatural compared to placing pedals or outboard gear in order in a conventional amp's effect loop.


    I'm away from home now so it's a bit inconvenient to link to my old thread on this but essentially I had a stereo loop in either the x or mod spot (whichever is second). My loop physically ran to an external looper (a Boomerang III). I recorded a loop and let it play back over and over. If I put anything in the slot before it that has a volume setting in it's menu and you adjust that volume it absolutely effects what I'm hearing playing back from my loop. Conventional wisdom would say that isn't possible but this just proves my point that what's going on post amp is very much unnatural.


    CK acknowledged that this is in fact the case and offered no further comment that it would be changed. I took it as - that's just the way it is which makes using an external looper very inconvenient if you record a loop and then switch rigs. The result could be a jacked up performance with your loop jumping and diving in volume level if you switch to another rig to play over top of the first loop if there is anything in the other slot with a volume setting. Not good.

    "Tone is in the fingers" is not a necessary response to anything that I might type on any internet forum threads. Thank you.

  • Back to my point... Sorry.


    I have some wonderful delay/reverb pedals from Strymon that I've been wanting to lock into a stereo effect loop in the normal reverb or delay slots. Like the OP I would love to get the ability to do this but the more I think about this strange behavior in the x and mod slots the more I think that it's more complicate than one would think and might take some overhauling of the signal flow to achieve.

    "Tone is in the fingers" is not a necessary response to anything that I might type on any internet forum threads. Thank you.


  • 1. You can use an external looper and place it at the end of the chain in the FX loop. Currently you'd lose the delay and reverb signal in your loops. By placing it last you'd gather up the entire signal chain and be able to use the KPA headphone output. Just shift the reverb and delay down one slot if you want them in the looper as well...


    +1. I'd been privately asking for this as well. Without it, it's impossible to apply any kind of delay or 'verb to the guitar when using a looper as a FX insert without effecting the loop backings.


    -djh

  • +1. I'd been privately asking for this as well. Without it, it's impossible to apply any kind of delay or 'verb to the guitar when using a looper as a FX insert without effecting the loop backings.

    Yep - I currently put my Boss RC50 after the Kemper and monitor through the Boss. It's a pain to do this though. I'm wondering how they will implement the looper on the rumoured KPA foot controller. If the signal is tapped after the reverb slot then perhaps the FX loop could also be moved there. The other alternative, if you have outboard delays and reverb, is to turn off the KPA's final 2 slots, send via stereo loop to your outboard delay and reverb; effectively making the looper the final link in the signal before the main outs. This way you're still entirely within the KPA. I've not tried it this way and it seems a shame to lose those last 2 slots. Which was partly the basis of my feature request.

    Suhr Classic Pro, Fender deluxe Strat & Baja Tele, Gibson ES335, Ibanez S Prestige 2170FW, Eastman AR371CE, Variax JTV > KPA > Patch bay inc. Strymons (Mobius, Timeline, Blue Sky), H9 Max, TC Triple Delay, & POD HD500 > Adam A7Xs