Latency - will it getting better?

  • Hi, I am very keen to buy a Kemper Amp. But I read in the review from Peter Weihe, that the Kemper has a latency of about 3 ms. This is twice as much as the Axe FX. I had an Axe and actually I noticed the latency there an more would not be okay for me.
    I am very senstive to latency and I wonder if the hardware of the KPA will be strong enough to handle a Software update that will bring the latency down to a better value. Does anybody has information about Kemper workimng on the latency?


    If so I would not wait to by one.

  • Do you play live? How far away from the speaker cabinet?


    Each foot is one millisecond of latency. That's how much latency you are used to hearing.


    If you are six feet tall, and you are standing two feet away from a guitar cabinet on the floor, even if it is aimed at your head, you are hearing at least 4.5ms of latency.


    Nothing anyone can tell you in a forum will answer this question.


    Something about the other product didn't feel right to you. It may have been latency, it may have been a combination of things.


    Try a Kemper - that is the only way you will ever know. FWIW - It feels like an amp to me. In headphones, it doesn't feel three feet away. And, I am very sensitive to latency, too.

  • + 1

  • I agree with the previous comment: it was not the latency disturbing you. I do not believe anybody can blind tell whether a speaker is 1ft or 3ft away (unless your hairs are blown, but then you're not going to ear much more anymore).
    Give it a try and decide for yourself.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • I don't know what is your signal chain but, as you probably already know, a lot of things can produce latency. Wireless systems, digital guitar (Variax), outboard FX in the FX loop, outboard digital FX pedals, pitch FX etc... 3 ms alone are not really noticeable but 3 ms + 3 ms + 3 ms + 3 ms can be... The best advice If you don't want to feel any latency is to keep your signal chain very simple! ;)


    My signal chain: Guitar - wha - KPA - K10


    BTW Welcome!

    :)

  • I say buy one with a 30 day return policy. If it's not for you then return it. My bet is that you fall in love ... 8)

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • Each foot is one millisecond of latency. That's how much latency you are used to hearing.

    That is a good point! There is a "latency" in all tube amps as soon as you don't put your head against the grill.


    Here is a good test: use a long cable or an analog wireless and walk further and further away from your amp until the latency starts to be problematic. Then Calculate the latency from the distance and you will be surprised how much latency there always has been! If you use up all the length of a 20 foot cable you end up with 17ms delay! With a tube amp!! If it is a digital amp it might be 23ms. So the biggest part is in the air distance, not in the digital electronics.


    But it can certainly be a problem if several latencies ad up: I have to use the effects loop (which adds two more analog / digital conversion stages) and in the worst case a digital wireless (two more conversions) plus an active FRFR speaker with some digital DSP processing built in (two more conversions). Which adds up to 8 analog or digital conversion stages in total PLUS the delay from the air distance between the cabinet and me.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • There's no way it was the latency in the Axe that put you off. It must have been something else, or you had additional latency introduced in your chain (e.g. additional conversion stages and buffers into a soundcard/recording software.


    I'm also very sensitive to latency, and I prefer using a sample buffer of 32 when using software modelers. This buffer gives about 1.5 ms latency in itself, plus about 2 ms from the conversion stages for a total of ca 3.5 ms. No issues with that. A buffer of 64 gives a total of about 6 ms on my system and I'm just starting to feel it. There might be additional delay from the software processing or elsewhere though, so I'm not sure how correct this number is.


    The direct comparison with distance from speakers is not quite right, since when moving into the diffuse field the additional reflections etc will mask this delay somewhat. The 10 ms from standing 10 feet from the cab will feel quite different compared to the "dry" guitar with a 10 ms delay right into your headphones.

  • Call me crazy but I've felt a noticeable difference in what I perceive as "latency" moving from a QSC K10 to a Yamaha DXR10, even though their latency specs are pretty much the same - around 2ms. In short, the Yamaha feels exactly like a tube amp with the KPA, whereas the K10 doesn't. Of course there's a frequency response diference as well (for the better), but for some reason the latency sounds shorter also, no idea why.

  • Yamaha feels exactly like a tube amp with the KPA, whereas the K10 doesn't.

    Last week I played a gig where there was a pair of these so much praised QSC K10. I couldn't understand why so many feel good with them. To me it sounded very nasal and synthetic. I was lucky they also had a blackface twin for backline. So I took this and smiled.


    I am not an electronic savvy, so all I can say is: it has nothing to do with latency and also it cannot be cured with EQ adaptation. There is something strange why certain types of fullrange speakers sound plastic and others don't. Maybe my ears are spoiled because at home I got used to these yummy RCA TT08.


    If you really would feel 2 ms of latency, you should feel every single step towards or away from your amp! I don't.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Edited 2 times, last by fretboardminer ().