Latency - will it getting better?

  • absolutely impossible to notice the 3 ms latency like everyone said hear already, unless you have a crappy audio interface but I todays interfaces almost all are capable of providing low latency tracking.


    If you do notice the kemper latency then let me congratulate you on your superpowers, sir!

  • Hell, I can't hear the latency on my interface when it's set to 96ms let alone 3ms. :D


    96ms is in the range of a typical slabback echo. You really should be able to hear this ;)


    Seriously, if I'm going to play timing critical stuff in fast tempo, values above 6ms are critical for me. I doubt I could deliver a timing stable fast lick at 96ms. That's a lot of abstraction my old brain has to pull of then and just doesn't deliver ;)


    But I agree with most of you here: 3ms is no problem at all and is equal to standing 1 meter away from an actual amp.

  • 96ms would be like standing 32 meters away from you amp, dude!

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • Trazan is right about early reflections diffusing small amounts of delay. That's why everything sounds so different onstage at an outdoor gig. No "amp in the room" feel, because there is no room ;)


    I think the biggest difference in "feel" between a regular amp and a monitor cabinet is because the sound from the monitor is literally "in your face". If you aim a regular guitar cabinet at your head, it doesn't feel the same, either.


    BTW - A shredder with 96ms latency would have to play a 1/4 note ahead of the beat at 156.25bpm LOL!

  • Call me crazy but I've felt a noticeable difference in what I perceive as "latency" moving from a QSC K10 to a Yamaha DXR10, even though their latency specs are pretty much the same - around 2ms. In short, the Yamaha feels exactly like a tube amp with the KPA, whereas the K10 doesn't. Of course there's a frequency response diference as well (for the better), but for some reason the latency sounds shorter also, no idea why.


    Great to hear you like the DXR 10 !! :thumbup:

  • First time I tried Kemper I felt the Latency annoying but after a while I got used to it, but I hope it can be improved in the future. Its not bugging me when playng stuff i know, but when doing improvisation, its important to have a fast direct feel. 3 milliseconds is alot, if you dont believe me, play your guitar direct true a pc and have your soundcard at 3 milliseconds at the same time.It sounds like a dubler effect. Ore have a direct guitar sound to the mixer at the same time with Kemper, But exept for this, kemper is the best unit available.I just did a new record now using Kemper and I love it.

  • Hmm! interesting? you dont think its right how it works? I also made a recording with Voodoo lab amp selector,using Kemper, Roland Vg-88 and Line6 Pod-xt at the same time on different audio tracks. And Kemper was 3rd in this latency test.

  • Time domain effects
    Phasing (0 - 3 MS)
    At very short delay times, of between 1 and 3 milliseconds (ms), and when the delay is heard alongside the original sound, an effect known as Phasing may be created. Because the delay time falls within the length of time associated with audio waveforms, various cancellation and summing effects can be heard between the two sounds. These are more phase related effects than straightforward repeats.


    By using modulation to vary the delay time, complex phase differences between the source and copied sounds are created and the sound "sweeps" or "turns inside out".


    Flanging (3 - 13MS)
    Longer delay times of between 3 and 13ms give the more coloured tonal effect called Flanging.


    Chorus (13 - 30MS)
    Chorus is similar to vibrato but with equal amounts of dry and effect signal mixed together. The idea is to create the effect of two instruments playing together with subtle time and pitch differences.


    ADT - automatic double tracking (15 - 35MS)
    A single copy can be used to thicken and strengthen a sound, particularly a lead vocal. To prevent the effect sounding too mechanical when applied to vocals, apply a little modulation.


    A delay of this length may also be used to transform a mono sound into pseudo-stereo by panning the dry and wet signals to opposite sides of the stereo field.


    Slapback (70MS)
    At this delay time the repeats become distinct from the original sound an effect known as Slapback is heard.


    "Conventional" delay effects (70MS +)
    Longer than 70ms more conventional delay and echo effects can be produced. It is usual to time such affects according to the tempo of the music.


    Suggested settings
    Delay time Feedback Modulation
    Width Speed
    Phasing 0-3ms A little Lots Slow
    Flanging 3-13ms Lots Medium Medium
    Chorus 13-30ms None A little Medium
    ADT 15-35ms None A little A little
    Slapback echo 70ms None None None
    Conventional delay 70+ms Optional None None

  • Quote

    Great to hear you like the DXR 10 !! :thumbup:

    Ingolf! Thanks for pointing me to the DXR10, I really appreciate it :)


    My only small complaint so far is the hiss at low volumes, but the tones I get from this thing with the KPA more than compensate for it. I'm loving it!


    About latency, all I can say is that I could feel a difference between KPA + K10 vs my all-tube rig, not so with the DXR10. So IMO it could be one of two things: 1) The actual latency of the K10 is higher than the advertised 2ms or 2) The difference in feel is due to the weird frequency response of the K10.


    Anyway as much as 3ms are not too much of an issue by itself, when combined with other digital gear (Class D powered speaker with DSP like the aforementioned K10 or DXR10 for instance) it starts to make a difference. Since latency is cumulative, 5ms means 5ft I need to stand closer to my monitors in order not to feel disconnected, and IME I start to feel disconnected at 15ft. With KPA + DXR10, instead of 15ft I now have a 10ft radius around my amp to move around while playing, so IMHO it's not a huge deal, but it does matter.

  • Isn't it also correct not to measure latency when in profiling mode because the kemper will add extra latency in profiling mode to both the kemper and reference amp signal? This added latency is then removed when in normal kemper playing mode.
    Strengdal, are you sure you don't have the newly introduced constant latency mode activated all the time?
    That feature should only be used when reamping a certain way.
    In normal playing mode I can't feel any latency.

  • Our ears can tell if a sound comes from the left or from the right, from above or from below just by little differences in timing (besides other thing that tell us if something is near or far). Humans can hear far less than 3ms as long as there is any fixed point as orientation, so they can compare what the eyes see and what the ears hear and how that fits togehter. When you are uesd to a direct displaying tubeamp and move to a digital modeller the impression how the timing of hands, eyes and ears fits together is wrong for a while. When you close your eyes and don't see the monitor it's alright, your ears then 'tell' the brain the monitor is 3ft further away, but when you look at the monitor the information from ears and eyes feels wrong since your brain can't calculate where the monitor is anymore, the impressions don't fit together anymore. If the OP says he feels the latency then to me there is nothing wrong with that. He got to get used to that 'wrong' impressions first to feel comfortable with the latency. My 2ct.