Latency - will it getting better?

    Of course there is no such thing as zero latency just as there is no such thing as an instantaneous action. Everything takes time. Its just a question of how much. Even pure analog circuits operate at 80% the speed of light. Of course this is undetectable to the ear. A mic placed within an inch of an electric guitars string can capture the sound with 1/12 of a millisecond of latency. This is 36 times faster than the KPA's 3ms typical latency snd therefore a suitable reference.


    My suggestion for measurement is technically sound. Try it and let's get some real measurements.


    bd

    3ms is perfectly OK with me. However, CK, I was wondering how much additional latency is added when you start to add additional effects. For example, if you put two stomps plus delay and reverb, does your 3ms go to, say, 6ms.


    Just to put things into perspective, if you are using, for example, an eventide factor stompbox - timefactor or modfactor - those units each have at least 2ms of latency (remember they each had a full ADA plus digital processing). So turning on two factor stompboxes in front of an amp and recording it directly with a mic will actually have a latency of roughly 5ms from the time you hit your string. Lots of pros use these without a problem.

    Quote from thehorse

    3ms is perfectly OK with me. However, CK, I was wondering how much additional latency is added when you start to add additional effects. For example, if you put two stomps plus delay and reverb, does your 3ms go to, say, 6ms.


    Just to put things into perspective, if you are using, for example, an eventide factor stompbox - timefactor or modfactor - those units each have at least 2ms of latency (remember they each had a full ADA plus digital processing). So turning on two factor stompboxes in front of an amp and recording it directly with a mic will actually have a latency of roughly 5ms from the time you hit your string. Lots of pros use these without a problem.


    More FX on the KPA shouldn't add up to the overall latency because the signal stays in the digital domain, unless your 2nd example which requires several A/D conversions.

    Quote from thehorse

    3ms is perfectly OK with me. However, CK, I was wondering how much additional latency is added when you start to add additional effects. For example, if you put two stomps plus delay and reverb, does your 3ms go to, say, 6ms.

    Ay! That is what me too, I am curious to know since I discovered that I can use the new Pitch effects even for my music!


    I wonder if they affect latency when they are in OFF state? Will the Kemp be faster if Stomp slots are left empty?


    But I have to admit: these are theoretical ramifications. I don't really hear a difference between a Pitch in OFF state or completely taken out of the slot. So I don't worry too much.



    PS: aha - good morning Inglolf! You answered my question before I made it. Scary ... :)

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Quote

    More FX on the KPA shouldn't add up to the overall latency because the signal stays in the digital domain, unless your 2nd example which requires several A/D conversions.


    I think this is incorrect. The POD HD500 has dynamic latency as well and each effect added does indeed add a tiny bit more latency. In order for more effects not to contribute to the over all latency, the max latency would have to be calculated and fixed.

    Quote from Will_Chen

    each effect added does indeed add a tiny bit more latency

    Even when it is in the OFF status? I don't know whether the POD offers such a possibility. But I wonder if a Pitch effect in OFF status would add latency in the KPA.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

    Quote from Will_Chen

    I think this is incorrect. The POD HD500 has dynamic latency as well and each effect added does indeed add a tiny bit more latency. In order for more effects not to contribute to the over all latency, the max latency would have to be calculated and fixed.


    Could you elaborate a bit on this? I had the HD 500 as well and never noticed this. Has this topic already been discussed and was it confirmed by Line 6?
    As I understand, latency gets introduced with an A/D conversion. But after that? In the digital domain? By another effect?
    Adding another effect will increase CPU load, but latency?

    Quote

    Could you elaborate a bit on this? I had the HD 500 as well and never noticed this. Has this topic already been discussed and was it confirmed by Line 6?
    As I understand, latency gets introduced with an A/D conversion. But after that? In the digital domain? By another effect?
    Adding another effect will increase CPU load, but latency?


    Yes the HD500 latency was dynamic, even between the dual internal chains. When you used their pitch glide (whammy) you could actually feel things catch up. The same thing happens with some of the KPA pitch effects. As such, if you placed an EQ in 1 half the parallel chain even at default zero settings a comb filter would occur. Same thing with a pitch shift engaged but without any actual shifting happening. You can read up at the below thread at TGP. I posted a clip and another user went through the hassle of actually calculating the additional latency introduced by EQ and pitch effects: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=964530. The reason you never noticed it is because players just can't notice latency like they think they can. I only discovered it by accident due to the comb filtering which occured.