Why the Yahama DXR 10 and not the DXR 12?

  • Almost every two way systems in the lower to middle price range have a weak point near the crossover frequency and are hyped a bit in the highs, some more, some less. However when you listen to monitors side by side you might come to conclusion that these hyped highs are normal because that is what you hear everywhere and you get used to it and then you might judge the monitors with a really flat response in the highs as boring, not open enough, not brilliant enough and so on. An RCF NX12 SMA seems boring compared to it's cheap brothers like the 312a, but the NX is the flat one and the 312a is the one with boosted highs. How to solve the problem? I have no clue. Data sheets are often made up to loook nicer, you can not trust them. All you could do is measure the response yourself, even then you don't know anything about the dispersion and ab out the distortion, the pressure and where you feel that pressure and so on. It's not that easy.

  • Also, are people looking for the best sounding speakers? Or the ones that provide a true representation of the profiles? Is there a big difference between the two objectives?

    My view is that it is the same thing.
    When i get good tone (very personal of course) with many different profiles without lots of EQ and tweaking
    i consider it to be a good speaker.


    I should point out that i mainly play rythm guitar with mostly low to medium gain Marshall rigs such as JTM45, 50, JCM800.
    What i look for in my sound is clarity, string separation, punch/balls, no muddy low end and no harsh highs.


    With the HD1221 i have it set up as a floor wedge with the horn rotated 90 deg, normal/flat DSP setting, on most rigs
    i use the bass is turned down slightly and im there, when looking at the frequency response chart there is a slight bass hump at 80-300hz so it seems appropriate.

  • In the modeling world, it is important not to stray too far from a neutral uncolored sounding monitor. The more
    faithful the reproduction of sound, the closer the profile is to the original amp. If you have hyped speakers, the tendency is to tweak your profile to compensate. Now your FOH feed is affected. Its a losing battle.


    Use a set of reference monitors or studio headphones as your 'standard" for tweaking your tones and pick an FRFR solution that sounds good to your ears without reworking/adjusting your rigs. If your monitoring solutions are too different, keeping your tone consistent is a daunting task.


    bd


  • That's kind of the point I was driving at in my post. Personally, I would want as neutral a response as possible from my monitors or my speakers when using a modelling device (or a Profiler). The idea being that what I was hearing was the sound created by the device and not the sounds added by a speaker cone, or a preamp.


    But this is not necessarily the "best sounding speaker", if you catch my drift. When I am playing at home, in my room, or in some other setting, one type of power amp, or FRFR amp or cabinet will sound better than others. This is most likely due to room characteristics, or other environmental parameters. Maybe even the weather and how humid it is.


    IMO, the difference between "the best sounding" and the "most FRFR" boils down to how the sound will translate across different listening environments. Of course, tone is subjective, so one mans neutral might be another man's dull, or another man's cutting through the mix could be some dude's screechy.


    So on that note, anyone care to reinforce MartinJ's ranking? Or offer another one altogether? :thumbsup:

  • In the modeling world, it is important not to stray too far from a neutral uncolored sounding monitor. The more
    faithful the reproduction of sound, the closer the profile is to the original amp. If you have hyped speakers, the tendency is to tweak your profile to compensate. Now your FOH feed is affected. Its a losing battle.


    Use a set of reference monitors or studio headphones as your 'standard" for tweaking your tones and pick an FRFR solution that sounds good to your ears without reworking/adjusting your rigs. If your monitoring solutions are too different, keeping your tone consistent is a daunting task.


    bd


    From a certain point of view, this is a win some time-lose some time situation everytime. It is highly unlikely that the FOH is going to be an FRFR system with absolutely flat speakers throughout the venue. So the audience will be hearing something different and you will hear something different. The catch is, is what you are hearing better? Or are those speakers sounding better to the audience?


    I too think that a reference monitor or FRFR speaker wins over coloured speakers. Its sort of like a recording, where you want things to translate across as many different listening devices as possible, i.e. headphones, hi-fi speakers, car stereo, etc. With any speaker that has "character", there's a chance that things will sound vastly different across different settings, i.e. at home, in the jampad, on stage.

  • Nightlight, i think i know what you mean. A true FRFR speaker should sound best most often.


    I believe that this is not the entire story, i think different speakers have different abilities (even if considered FRFR)
    to accurately play a distorted tone well controlled with power and clarity.


    My Behringer B215D sounded great with clean sounds but sounded muffled and sloppy with
    drive tones. Could be that the woofer is not stiff or light enough to handle transients of the distorted tone or the
    amplifier could not control the cone, i dont know.
    The Mackie was a different story, many different both clean and distorted tones that previously where crappy
    sounding now sound crisp and awesome, this should mean the mackie is flatter/better than the other.
    Also it has a nice kick (more fun :) ) in the chest that must mean better powerhandling and drivers, i dont know if "FRFR" is also transient or dynamic response ability.


    Does anyone know what type of sound is used to determine if a speaker is FRFR or not?
    I mean there should be a difference if the sound is distorted or a sweeping wave 0-20+ khz, and at what volume?


    Hope you get my thoughts, im just rambling on here..

  • Hi - back from my holiday in Flensburg (No, I HAVEN´T visited G-66 because theres no need 8) ) I can tell you that I´m very pleased and satisfied with my DXR8! I got also a Nova FRFR monitor with 12" but I mostly prefer really my DXR with 8" speaker! I thought also a 12" should be the better solution, because so many speaker for the guitar are 12" speakers. But to err is human :whistling:
    Yamaha DXR-8 - It fits perfect for me! 8o

  • Yamaha DXR-8 - It fits perfect for me! 8o

    I was looking forward to reading some positive opinions about the DXR8, as it is what I intend to purchase. Do you think it delivers enough punch to use it at rehearsal volumes with drummer, bass and guitar in the room?.


    Thanks.

  • I was looking forward to reading some positive opinions about the DXR8, as it is what I intend to purchase. Do you think it delivers enough punch to use it at rehearsal volumes with drummer, bass and guitar in the room?.


    Thanks.


    I think it really depends on what you play. I love my 8" studio monitors. But when i switch to B tuned baritone guitars the speakers can´t handle the massive low end at higher volumes. I would really love active 10" or 12" speakers that would exactly sound as my studio monitors...


    I am really considering those DXR 10 or 12s. But since many users say that there is some hiss, i am unsure. For live use, some hiss is totally ok, but i would also use those in the studio...

  • The response of a speaker is typically measured with a calibrated reference mic. Even the mic isn't trully flat response but it is close and there is a way to offset the measurement results with the Mic's response curve. A sine wave swept from 20hz to 20khz can be used. Pink or white noise can also be used.


    For us, the best method is to compare various rigs against your favorite studio headphones or reference monitors. The mist important thing is for your rigs to sound good whether run through direct PA connection, your FRFR stage speakers of choice, or your reference headphones. When you have achieved this, your tones will be accurate and translate well.


    On the other hand, if you have a severely colored speaker and compensate in your rigs to correct it, your tones will be unbalanced to everything else (not translate well).


    Remember that guitarists are tone snobbs. We have an ideal tone in our heads that we strive to achieve...even with a traditional amp. Unfortunately, once the signal hits the mixer, its out of our hands. Our perfect stage tone is altered. Working with the house eq to get the PA flat for a given room helps. Ultimately, the audience won't care if its not exactly the same....it hardly ever is anyways!


    bd

  • I recently played through the DXR 10 and it sounded quiet. Have one on order so I'll let you know.

    The hiss is audible only if you use the DXR10 in your very quiet studio, and even then you really have to pay attention if you want to hear it. It doesn't affect the audio quality at all, you cant hear it once you play at quiet or very loud volume. For me it was not a deal breaker because these speakers sound so much cabinet like! Never tried the 8 and 12 DXR versions and cant neither compare to CLR that I never got the chance to try. I had a pair of K10 which were excellent speakers but a little bit too HiFi for my taste. The good news is that, as they sound awesome with the KPA, they still sound very well with acoustic guitar and vocal. As musicman65 say, I feel that these speakers well translate the profiles I use as a studio monitor would do.

  • Got to play a little through my newly received CLR last night. I must say for the 1st time I am hearing the difference on some amps that were sounding very simular. I'm hoping to pickup a Dxr10 and a Mackie Dms12 on Saturday to compare. :D The weight of the CLr is even 5 pounds heavier then I thought, but still pretty easy to manage

  • I can't believe it, I couldn't find a DXR10 in stock anywhere in southern Michigan. ?( I'll order one tomorrow from Sweetwater. Should have it on tuesday and will do a comparison with the CLR. I been playin the CLR today at stage volumes, with my GR55 as well, and it does not disapoint :D