After some searching through the forums, I guess it's a known issue, with some caveats and potential workarounds:
Posts by rgba32
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I am seeing this also. It's almost like the cab of the new rig is having an effect on the recorded loop. It can be subtle at times, and other times not so subtle. My looper location is set to output. From the manual it appears this subtle change of tone isn't expected (pg 259). Anyone else experiencing this?
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Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
Clselby It doesn't happen all the time either, e.g. it didn't happen today, but next time it does happen I'll try to record it.
BayouTexan I initially through it was something along the same lines. The fact that it goes away after a few minutes makes me wonder though.
Alfahdj That description sounds like what's happening all right. That's a good tip about trying the kemper out in other places, I must do that.
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I am using a powered toaster running into a Kabinet. One thing I've noticed is that right after the Kemper boots up, tones are extra noisy for the first couple of minutes, then things settle down and the additional noise goes away. The difference could be comparable to the type of noise difference between a single coil vs. a humbucker. It responds to the noise gate and master volume just like any normal tone would.
Once this noise goes away, I can immediately reboot the Kemper doesn't come back the second time around. It almost feels like some residual charge that needs to dissipate if that makes any sense.
It's not a big deal since it's so short lived, but wondering if others have experienced the same issue.
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Quick follow up to my original post. I spent most of the weekend getting acquainted with the intricacies of tone tweaking, learning about the various parameters, reading forum posts, and watching youtube videos. I must say that I couldn't be happier with the results. I initially thought I could buy a profile pack and it should sound just like it did in the video. Now I understand there are many variables outside of the profile itself, such as guitar type, physical speaker rig, listening environment to name a few. After learning more about how to tweak for what I want to hear, I love what's coming of the Kabinet.
My main takeaway is that there are few hard rules. Some of my tweaked profiles are using full range, some are using imprints, and some of even using no cab module at all. I'm really loving some of the sparkly clean which can be achieve by doing the latter. I've been tweaking each profile for a specific guitar and pickup combination and that seems to be working well for me.
Thanks for the tips, this forum is a wealth of information.
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I agree for distorted tones, but for super clean / acoustic tones there is still value in being able to send direct, cab-less, signals to main out / FOH.
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Interesting, so I should be able to place a “dummy” cab in there which I then proceed to bypass so I can select the desired imprint. I’ll need to play around with that, great tip! cheers.
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From page 81 of the manual:
"Direct PROFILEs are either intended to be played through a speaker that adds coloration or are intended to be played without distortion."
I guess the automatic switch to FR mode is why distorted direct profiles only work with real guitar cabinets, and don't sound good through the Kone.
Some of the clean direct profiles do sound fantastic through the Kone.
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Ah, that clarifies things, thanks for the reference.
It's an interesting choice to always put the the Kone in FR mode for direct profiles. On the one hand it automatically handles the acoustic simulator / full range signal case, but it also seems to imply that we can't use speaker imprints with direct profiles. The use of imprints on top of direct profiles seem like it should in theory give the most accurate AITR reproduction. Instead if we want to accomplish this, we would either need to find a genuine merged profile, or resort to studio profiles and use the CabDriver approximation. Maybe I'm overlooking something though.
If the above is accurate, it would be really nice to allow the user the option to be able to select an imprint when using direct profiles. I think this would boil down to *not* automatically switching to FR mode for direct profiles when Monitor Cab Off is active. Instead the user would have to manually disable Monitor Cab Off to enter FR mode. We don't lose any functionality, but perhaps miss out on some convenience... At that point, Monitor Cab Off essentially becomes a "Use Speaker Imprint" button when used with the Kone, which seems more intuitive.
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Yes, the whole post is only talking about the monitor/speaker output.
Probably a clearer summary of the question is - for the monitor output with speaker imprints enabled, why is enabling "Monitor Cab Off" different from disabling the Cabinet module? That is, why do the results coming out of the Kabinet sound different?
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Hi all,
Like some others on the forum, I've experienced listening to amazing kemper tones online, only to purchase the pack and find the results underwhelming. Usually it's from a lack of top end frequencies, or what I've heard other refer to at the blanket over the cab effect.
I have what seems like a basic question I'm hoping someone can answer...
I am running a powered KPA toaster through a Kabinet. The Kabinet is driven from the speaker output, which is driven off of the Monitor Output internally.
My understanding is that the Kabinet and Kone are designed to mimic a guitar cabinet when speaker imprints are active, i.e. we're not running in full range mode. To do this you enable the "Monitor Cab Off" which is what unlocks the various speaker imprints. So far so good. The "Monitor Cab Off" option exists to allow you to send the full studio signal chain to FOH, whilst using a guitar cab / Kabinet for your personal monitor. So when MCO is enabled, in theory, we have the complete signal including amp and effects, but without the cabinet module. This is where I get confused... why do I then still hear a different in the sound when I toggle the Cabinet module in this scenario. It sounds all thin and fizzy if the Cabinet module isn't active. Shouldn't I already be bypassing it completely when MCO is enabled?
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Its taken nearly 10 years for another product to replicate the profiling process....partially I suspect becuase other companies are committed to modelling, plus there are some similar functions ( tone matching) that go part way.
Here is my take on what's happening. The profiling process as implemented in KPAs is a patented process. This means that how it's done is not a secret, it's public knowledge, but also means (in theory) that other companies can't use the same technique without some type of licensing agreement in place. Neural DSP get around this by using a different technique to achieve a similar goal. They have taken a machine learning approach and have (roughly) documented their process publicly also. Since their technique is based on machine learning they can do this without infringing on Christoph's patent.
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Does the Kemper really NEED the Kemper in physical form for handling the sound? I mean....a computer almost has unlimited amounts of processing power compared to the Kemper. How vital is the circuitry in the Kemper to the sound?
100% Kemper would be able make a plugin which ran on a PC/Mac, loaded Kemper profiles and reproduced the audio exactly, or even at higher precision. I'll stay away from the profiling part of the equation, but in terms of using existing profiles, I have no doubt as to the feasibility of such a piece of software. In fact I look at TH-U itself as an existence proof. No additional hardware would be required apart from an off-the-shelf audio interface to plug into.
As for the software being written specifically for the processor(s) inside of the Kemper, the bulk of the code itself is probably written in a higher level language (C or C++?) so it would take a bit porting work, and maybe some emulation work for any custom DSP chips. It would be akin to porting a computer game from one console to another which happens all the time. As you said, it's all ones and zeros after the guitar signal has been digitized. This wouldn't be the case if any analog processing were happening internal to the Kemper, e.g. if it contained tubes.
As others have pointed out, there are many reasons why this may not be desirable for Kemper or the user base, but to answer your original question, yes, it would be possible.
