Posts by ThingsWithStrings

Quote from V8guitar

Direct profiles for this reason are a retrograde step because you then have to add the cab section etc.

Interesting. I don't think it's "retrograde" at all. That's the reason for it to exist in Kemper-land. Kemper offered it as a possibility and some users (like myself) want to have the ability to make direct amp profiles of many different heads, use a real physical cabinet to record with, use as a stage monitor, etc.. It's just a different mindset and one that makes sense to me especially for recording purposes. I'd rather it just not be an option if it has to be this unsupported and difficult to make convincing direct profiles.

As a whole, I still have real sonic issues with Kemper's DAC. 44.1kHz/16 bit is just not cutting it anymore. At least offer 48kHz/24 bit or higher like their competitors. I think that's the reason why I've never been a fan of kemper verbs and delays. they sound grainy and spitty to my ears. Eventide, Strymon, Universal Audio, and Line 6, to name a few all have much better sounding delays and verbs. Live, you'll never hear it of course. In the studio, it's painfully obvious for me.

This may seem not connected, but it is. The DAC in the Kemper has never been updated (as far as I know). Your profiles are all getting converted to red-book standard, AES, 44.1kHz/16bit inside the unit. That's why the unit will downsample any IR's that are of a higher value. FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised if Kemper comes out with another "upgrade" head, etc in the near future either software or hardware. Until then, The Kemper DI for making direct profiles is the "workaround" it seems.

Yep! You may want to check out a thread I started a couple of days ago regarding this very thing.
Here's the thread:
"Direct Amp Profiles and DI Questions"

Quote from easstudios

The effectiveness of your direct profiles really depends on what you are trying to achieve from it. I'm totally convinced about how good direct profiles sound when profiling my amplifiers - it sounds exactly as it should and I can't easily tell the difference from the real amp. The issue I have is the Kemper works fine for capturing cleaner tones and high gain tones, and SOME midgain tones. But other midgain tones throw it off massively no matter what I try (I admittedly haven't bought the Kemper DI which is what they insist on to be able to support me).

thanks everyone for chiming in on this! For the record, I am not using the effects loop to make direct profiles. I am only using the speaker out option. I just listed that for those who may not realize that you can do that as well if you choose. I should’ve made that more obvious.

Easstudios, You’re getting right to the heart of the matter which is: mid gain tones. That is my bread and butter, and I live in that world 90% of the time. Would you mind sharing how you’re making your direct amp Profiles? I’m not sure if you’re trying to resell them commercially later or not (In which case I totally understand). I am not. I’m just a working musician interested in trying to make better direct amp Profiles.

When Kemper came to Nashville 13 years ago, they spent weeks profiling amps at a close friend’s studio. Many of which made it onto the original amp profiles pack. When I was able to beta test the first version of the toaster head along with some other session players gathered at the studio, I liked the way it could capture distortion tones especially when they were super heavy. But most of the time, no one plays that heavy unless they’re in a metal band and as well they should. But I was not impressed with how the Kemper could handle amps on the edge of break up and medium game tones overall - There was a harshness and a mid range frequency masking thing going on. The more we tried to refine the profile the more it became a crapshoot. Most of the time, we had to run the same profile over and over again until we got closer to it. It’s gotten much much better - obviously I have drunk the Kemper Kool-Aid and they do make a very good product.

Quote from V8guitar

For studio, why would you want to take your Cab? If its because it sound sterile then you have an issue with the KPA profiling process full stop.

You're right I do have a problem with the profiling process (mentioned above). Honestly, I just happen to be in the category of customer that is interested in seeing if I can live in the recording studio world with a Kemper head and be able to get all the nuances that my real amps provide with a real cabinet. I can take advantage of different mic combinations and placements, multiple mic locations with in a room, and all the outboard gear I can put it through. When you show up to a studio with a pre-fab profile, you collapse all those options that are always available when you have your real amps.

Cheers,

Bryan

Real quick - “geoffsct” you have to have your amp’s speaker output connected to either a load box with matching Ohms, or the amp’s speaker (if its a combo), or a speaker cabinet if your amp is a head and cabinet configuration. If you don’t do that, you will damage your amp!! All tube amps are built looking for a load resistance. Think of it this way, if you had a Ferrari up on stilts and floored it for hours on end with the wheels spinning furiously and never touching the pavement or anything that could offer a load resistance, you would burn through your engine very quickly.

OK, I apologize for the length in advance, but I’d like to address the bigger problem that I have with my Kemper. Especially when it comes to doing direct amp profiles. And since there are lots of folks who maybe are new to Kemper-land, I’ll explain it as simply and methodically as I can.

For those of you who have tried direct amp profiles, or in the process of trying direct amp profiles, most likely the reason why you want to do that is because you are interested in using an external cabinet either on stage, or potentially, and I say this with great skepticism, for studio recording to make your profiles sound and feel more like you’re playing your amp through a cabinet from its original speaker. Further detailed explanation follows.

Situation 1: Live

I have several heads that I play (Bogner, Friedman, Marshall, etc.) and I play them through my 2X12 cabinet loaded with Celestion V30s. One of the possible benefits of useing of the Kemper would be to have Direct Amp profiles of each head in my profiler, and be able to bring only my profiler, and my cabinet to a live show. Thus eliminating the need to bring multiple heads (In reality, I usually only bring one head and miss my others when performing). Note that I’m not interested in taking my “Main Outs”from the amp to the front of house as I’m only using Non-merged, Direct Amp profiles (those of you who have heard what an amp sounds like without a speaker now just how that sounds!). This is more for a club size situation where stage volume is loud enough to get the job done, or I’ll ask the sound crew to just mic my cabinet the old fashioned way. Thus, having a direct amp, non-merged profile should be perfect for this. But they fall incredibly short. Unusable really.

Situation 2: studio recording

We all know how to record an electric guitar amp (old school), and how to make Kemper “studio” profiles. Once the profile is made, the Kemper is really designed to be “recorded” - meaning you use the Main Output(s) and connect that to your interface/DAW - which is what I suspect 99% of Kemper users do (myself included but under duress). To me, the Kemper always sounds sterile, and doesn’t really hold up in the studio environment (There are really good reasons for this and I’m happy to explain that to anyone who is curious maybe in another post).

If you’re like me and are not happy with this, you have 2 options:

Running your profile through an FRFR cabinet (I own a Kemper Kabinet) and trying to record that using a mic is not recommended because now you’re essentially re-recording your profile. You’ve got the profile (orig amp, mic, mic pre, etc) and now your trying to record that set up again using another mic, mic, pre, etc. Redundant and not necessary. Kemper also does not recommend this. It’s like eating twice cooked pizza. Never as good as the first time.

So, that leaves us with the Direct Amp possibility, which on paper should be the panacea to all this. Theoretically, we should be able to use a direct amp profile - which captures your amp from either the output stage (or the FX loop stage) and bypasses your speaker entirely - thus eliminating the need for a mic, mic pre, etc., or making a Kemper “studio” profile. We should be able to bring the Kemper profiler and a cabinet to the studio, dial up a Direct Amp (non-merged) profile, take the speaker out of the Kemper Profiler, plug into a cabinet, mic the cabinet, and record it. It should also in theory be sonically indistinguishable from the original amp and speaker combo. Blindfolded, we should not be able to tell the difference. This is the main appeal of the Kemper for me, and again it has potentially the same benefits as the live situation. Except that it doesn’t.

The Kemper Direct Amp Conundrum:

There are a lot of DI‘s out there on the market, and Kemper has addressed the wide variety of them very well in their instructions for making direct amp profiles. I am using either the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8, or the Rupert Neve Designed RNDI. Both of which are exceptionally good DI boxes. The benefit of the Two Notes DI is that it can act as a load box, thus allowing you to make profiles without using the amp’s speaker. It is capable of handling 400W so there is plenty of headroom. You can of course use the THRU of the DI and still use your cabinet as well and bypass using it as a load box. The Neve DI will require you to use the THRU as you need to have a load on your amp it does not have a load box function.

Once your connections are made: Guitar - Kemper - Kemper Direct out - Amp input - Speaker output to DI box IN, DI Thru to amp’s speaker (make sure to use speaker cables for these connections and NOT instrument cables), DI’s XLR output to Return Input on Kemper, check your signal strength, and you’re now ready to profile away.

To hear what your profile sounds like, switch to Browse mode, take the “speaker out” on the Kemper and (using a speaker cable always) plug that into your cabinet. It should sound identical. After all, you’ve taken the amp (minus the speaker cabinet), profiled it into your Kemper, so when you plug the output of the Kemper into your cabinet, it should sound the same. Except that it doesn’t. Not by a long shot.

The sonic result of the direct profiles, when compared to the original, does not retain the timbre of the original and adds too much top end as well as other artifacts that are not wanted or part of the original sound. This has been the case on BOTH DI boxes, used with the cabinets, and as a pure load box.

Do we have to buy a Kemper DI to fix this?

Which brings me back full circle - has anyone had total success using the Kemper DI or do you still have to tweak and refine and so forth? I’m interested in any testimonials especially by those who have tried other DIs and are still not happy with their Direct Amp profiles.

FWIW, when some of the best and most respected DIs on the market can’t really get the job done it tells me that this is a Kemper profiling issue. Perhaps having a separate Direct Amp Profile algorithm, instead of the original one which as far as I know has never been updated.

Cheers,

Bryan

Hi everyone, I’ve had my Kemper Powered Rack / Remote / Kabinet for quite a while now done many hundreds of “studio” profiles (to use Kemper’s words.). Now I’m finally trying to do some Direct Amp profiles. I’ve done over 100 in the last 3 days (Trainwreck, Tweeds, and high gain makers). I’ve found without exception the the direct profiles when using the Speaker Out and routing the signal back into each amp’s original speaker/cabinet fall horribly short of a near perfect profile. Even after I refine the profiles. They are WAY too bright and almost sound as if you are listening to a “studio” profile but with the cabinet OFF.

Here’s my set up and signal flow:
selected amp’s speaker output (all amps set to 8 Ohms) into Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 (plugged in to the “red nut” input or course), speaker cab emulation turned “off” and coming out the XLR into Kemper Power Rack Head’s XLR RETURN. Profiling levels, signal, and execution of profiling are fine. No problems. I refine the profile and save. I take the Speaker OUT from my powered rack head, plug it into the original amp’s cabinet and play. It sounds so far off from the original that it’s shocking to me. On a scale of 1 to 10 (ten being “indistinguishable from the original”) I rank it a 2.

I’ve read some of the other forum posts about DI choices and the manual’s advice as well. The Two Notes DI is a very solid DI and load box and specs are WAY more than my 100W, 45W, and 18W amps could ever put out. Does anyone have any tips or insights into this process? Has anyone had absolute 10 out of 10 success with using the Kemper DI?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Frustrated with the Kemper in Nashville…again

Bryan.

Thanks everyone! Much appreciated!

Hi everyone,

Just wanting to know a couple of things about the Bass - Middle - Treble EQs (on all settings - Amp, Output, Monitor, etc). Not the EFX EQs.

I'm curious if anyone else has done measurements on what the center frequency is for each band and their respective Q. Are the Qs broader for the output EQs (as I would assume) or the same like in the Amp section? And finally, if they are linear when summed.

I can find out really easily using a frequency analyzer, but was curious if anyone had the answer. For example, if you add 3.5dB of Treble at the amp stage, and then again at Output stage (I know it's global here), and both EQs share the same center frequency - like 5.5kHz, then you are adding a total of 7dB boost to 5.5kHz to that particular rig (and of course 3.5dB of 5.5kHz to ALL rigs).

It may seem innocuous, but this is important to know especially if you're using the Output EQ for home monitoring and looking to dial in a sweet spot using multiple monitors for recording/mixing, and for FOH and Monitor engineers playing live.

Thanks in advance,

Bryan

Yep, you guys are right. Still stuck with the preset(s) of output EQ being global. Would be nice to have the option to have them change along with the rig(s) since sometimes adjusting the amp EQs are alter everything else, and adding one of the effect plugin EQs sacrifices one of your possibilities for controlling a slot from the remote (like a tree/chorus/etc). Right now, learning to live with it...

I figured it out. Too bad you can't do this within Rig Manager just by saving the rig, As I'm able to do it now:

page though OUTPUT section until OUTPUT EQ is showing then hit Store, Store OUTPUT section.

Hi everyone, newbie here. I cannot figure out how I can save the main out EQ settings within the rig once I dial it in. I've tried it in Rig Manager and it just acts as a global tweak for every rig. I've tried it on the kemper itself when I store the rig. I'm sure I'm overlooking something....

thanks in advance!