Thanks guys. I've been of the opinion that for the most part it doesn't matter and I was curious what others thought. You guys brought up some good points to consider.
What do you think, how important are room acoustics when making studio profiles?
Do you think that you need an acoustically treated room to make good profiles?
Do you think that some simple acoustic treatments will suffice?
Do you think that it doesn't matter at all?
I'm also curious how you came to your conclusion. Is it an assumption, it is based on technical data, have you done some testing to reach your conclusion?
Outstanding, thanks for sharing, that was really cool!
You mentioned using "moving blankets over the amp and mic(s) to eliminate any sounds bouncing around", IMHO room acoustics don't make much if any difference when making profiles. I'm curious if you have tried making profiles with and without the moving blankets to see if there is any difference.
You are right-my bad-sorry about that. The return input is actually TRS and therefore balanced like the XLR. Both are sharing the same circuity though and there is no difference regarding their input sensitivity. The level of the return signal is controlled by the return level parameter for both inputs. I can see how one could interprete the wording in the manual to believe that one was exclusively for line signals and the other for microphones but it was confirmed by our tech team that there is no difference between the TRS and the XLR return.
The Profiler automatically adjusts the Return level parameter after the first profiling attempt.
Have you tried to profile through the XLR multiple times or did you switch to the TRS input immediately after the first failed attempt? In that case the automatically adjusted return level parameter was probably the reason why the second attempt resulted in a better profile.
Thank you for the quick reply. It's been a long time since I had this issue and I've been using the 1/4" ever since, I would need to try and duplicate it again to refresh my memory, it just made sense to me that using the 1/4" would have fixed my problem based on what the manual says but now that doesn't seem to be the case so I'm not really sure what was happening back then.
I would like to provide some info regarding this topic.
There is no difference between the XLR return and the TS Return input in terms of input sensitivity. The only difference is that the XLR is balanced and the TS is not.
The actual level of the return signal is determined by the return level parameter in the profiling menu.
This parameter works exactly the same for both inputs.
If you experience a difference in the level between both inputs it is probably caused by the fact that you use a XLR to TS cable which results in a balanced signal being converted into an unbalanced signal causing a drop in level by 6 dB.
If you experienced distortion while using the XLR input you should turn down the return level parameter or reduce the level coming from the external amp.
The parameters in the input menu are not „automatically calibrated" by the profiling process. If the distorted sens appears to be at -5 dB it must have been set to that level in the rig that was loaded before you entered the Profiling process and the input section was unlocked.
The Kemper DI box is exclusively available in our online store.
Thank you for the official reply. I do have a couple of questions.
It sounds like you are saying that the 1/4" return is unbalance, but the manual says "The RETURN input is available as balanced TRS or XLR input". Can you clarify if the 1/4" is balanced (TRS) or unbalanced (TS)?
In an older manual it says
"Return and Alternative Input (4)
Use these inputs to connect the output of external equipment with your Kemper Profiler. Their main use is for profiling - use either input as the return from the reference amp. Use the quarter-inch input to take a line-level signal from a digital amp, speaker simulation or subgroup of a mixing desk. Use the XLR input as appropriate, for instance with a microphone. Please note that the Kemper Profiler’s XLR input does not provide phantom power".
This would seem to indicate that the XLR is mic level and the 1/4" is line level. Is this an error in the manual or maybe I'm not reading it correctly?
Is it possible that the XLR return is damaged on my unit while the 1/4" is not? I ask because when I had this problem switching to the 1/4" definitely fixed the issue. That was a long time ago, maybe I should do some more testing to verify?
I have tried it and I got the best direct profile so far.
Interesting, it automatically set my DIST sens at -.5…?!
Looks like I will be using XLR // 1/4” TRS input all the time now, No more microphone cables.
I also tried a clean profile which came out pristine…
Have you guys ever had your dist sens ‘automatically calibrate’ while profiling?
I have never had it happened using XLR/XLR, this is the first time…
Thank you so much Tim, I got more clarity and nice full body in the few profiles that I’ve just done
Very cool, thanks for the update, glad to hear it.
Tim, when you say it was distorting, were you getting a message on the K PA telling you that the signal is too hot?
No, but I knew there was a problem when I couldn't make a clean profile, every time I tried to make a clean profile it came out distorted. Then when I switched to the 1/4" the clean profiles came out clean as they should.
That might be a good way to test this idea with your setup, see if you can make a clean profile. When you select clean amp during the profiling process if the Kemper detects distortion it will tell you that you just profiled a distorted amp after the profiling process, that what it was doing to me, and when I played the profile it was indeed distorted (yet the amp was perfectly clean).
Good luck guys, I hope it works for you like it did for me.
i'm just using a standard mic cable...what would the difference be, or were you just checking to make sure there wasn't an actual issue with my Kemper?
The XLR input has a mic preamp so it is very sensitive, the 1/4" is a line level input so it can handle a much higher level. In my case I was over driving the XLR input causing distortion and when I switched to the 1/4" it fixed my problem. Hope that helps.
Hey Tim, do you mean to get a cable that is XLR at one end, and quarter inch jack at the other end? Have you found more success doing it (Direct profiles) this way?
I have been just using a regular microphone cable XLR at both ends… The other question… I have been using a 20 foot XLR cable, is it better (sonically) to use a much shorter cable? Or does it make any difference…
Yes, I've had problems making direct profiles using the XLR return. I happened to have an XLR to 1/4" TRS cable on hand so I gave it a try and it fixed my problem. Personally, I don't think the length of the cable is a big deal, at least in this application.
Are you using the XLR return on the Kemper? If so try using the 1/4" return.
Another vote for a floorboard unit, I would buy one in a heartbeat.
I just got my new profiler and I was surprised that the direction to switch performances cannot be changed. For me it feels wrong that way and it often happens that I return to the same song we already played minutes before. It is hard to get used to that for me.
I saw in several posts in January 2017, April 2017 and even before that I am not the only one beiing irritated with that.
As proposed I open the topic again. Would be nice to get an answer by Kemper.
Ditto, to me the buttons are backwards, I don't know if I'll ever get used to it. I don't know why that is, it really doesn't seem like a big deal but for whatever reason I just can't get used to it. I would really like the option to swap the buttons in the settings.
Cause' you whiners keep complaining like spoiled brats over and over, and when you don't get your request filled.. keep complaining some moreDo you complain to every Co about the products you want? and do they automatically make it ?
If you can voice your opinion about whatever, I can voice my opinion about the remote being the answer or whatever I want ! Deal with it !
Why would they release a floorboard for $1100 , they will kill their KPA sales. You want the best, use KPA with the remote, otherwise keep using your cheaper inferior AX8 or all the other options out there.
If they ever do release a floor unit only with a full KPA, it should be the same price as the KPA
Thank you for your support
Who cares about a floor unit , get the remote ! There’s your facking floor unit !
how are they supposed to cram all of the editing knobs in a floor unit?
I’m very happy nothing new came out or comes out for many years still.
It means they are focused on this unit with future updates, making it the best it can be!
keeps bein a great investment that doesn’t de-value like every Axe fx unit and have to buy the new version over and over to get latest features.
I applaud CK to say at NAMM , nothing is new , we still have the best product out there after 6 years, I think, I’ve had mine. Best guitar investment I’ve made espescially since I was looking at axe fx at the time !
If your not happy, get an axe fx that will get replaced with a new unit very soon !
If you don't care about a floor unit why do you feel the need to shoot down everyone's request for one? I really like my Kemper but to be honest I've been using my AX8 because it's a floor unit, at my age one less thing to carry to a gig and setup makes a big difference. I'm realistic, I don't expect a $500 floor unit, I would be happy to pay $1100.00 which is the current price of the AX8, maybe more depending on what features are included. IMHO, if Fractal, Line 6 and many others can produce a floor unit then I'm pretty sure that Kemper could too if they wanted to without cutting into the further development of the rack/toaster versions.
Just curious...I could not find that wording in either the Reference Manual or the Profiling Guide. Did you cut and paste these instructions from some other manual?
Yes, I did copy and paste from "The Basics & Profiling Guide 2013". It is in the description of the back panel. Search for "Return and Alternative Input". To me the text indicates that the XLR has a mic preamp whereas the 1/4" does not (and this makes sense), so it would be easy to overdrive the XLR input with anything other than a mic. This makes me wonder why Kemper used an XLR out on their DI box.
Anyway, I know that switching to the 1/4" fixed my problem, I'm curious if anyone else can test this to see if it fixes their problem too.
I'm using the XLR, as that is what the Kemper DI box is set up to use. It worked for a few sessions then went rogue on me. The input and output lights are green when profiling, so the signal should be good.
I had the same problem and switching to the 1/4" input fixed it for me. The 1/4" is balanced so you only need a cable that goes from XLR to 1/4" TRS. It's worth a try...
I'm curious, are you guys using the XLR or 1/4" Return Input on the KPA? When doing DA profiles the output of the DI box can be pretty hot and if you are using the XLR input it could be over driving it.
From the manual: Use the quarter-inch input to take a
line-level signal from a digital amp, speaker simulation or subgroup of a mixing desk. Use the XLR input
as appropriate, for instance with a microphone.
Hope that helps.
I've been thinking, this subject reminds me of the Boss GT-10 cocked wah issue but on a much smaller scale. When I first got the GT-10 I took it to a jam session and the other guitarist said it sounded like the wah pedal was stuck on and he was right. Ever since then I could hear that cocked wah sound in most presets that had a fair amount of gain, the sound was stuck in my head and it drove me crazy. On the GT Central forum (is that the right name?) it was a very hot and disputed topic, people who didn't hear the cocked wah thought we were crazy, the discussions got very heated at times, they eventually created a sub forum just for cocked wah discussions.
Now the tables have turned, people are complaining about an issue with the KPA that I don't hear. At least a couple of you said that you hear the issue in my profiles, but I just don't hear it. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you don't hear something, I'm just saying that I don't hear it and I've been thinking that I don't want to hear it because if I do then it will be stuck in my head like the GT-10 cocked wah was and I'll never be able to get rid of it.
Anyway, I hope that makes sense and I wish you guys the best of luck getting this issue fixed.