Thank you for your very much for replying and the interest in success in my di profiling, i'm doing other tests on those days to understand better the whole things and where are problems and losses in my tries, there are lot of variables and not just problem with profiling. I read with interest the post of Chameleon with the proper link and all suggestions inside. I'm waiting also for some new stuff for those tests. I'll post news on those tries, i'm seriously intended to make my profiler play as i want non just for recording (this is yet perfect) but even in front of a real cab. If possible at least
Thank you to the replies and the useful suggestion of mr. Kemper about cabinet usage. A different representation of the profiling of a direct input profile can be useful because now the cabinet is not clear what does represent as a part of the tone. Even a sort of parameter than influence or enhance this kind of profiles can be useful.
I did some try today, even if i miss time and possibility of long session at volume on this period. I did the test i said on my last post, and to be exact a comparation (sorry i can't mic just now, i can share just my impressions) of those 3 situation:
1) tube head - guitar cab
2) tube head - dibox (power output into a mute cabinet) - solid state amp - guitar cab
3) Kemper Amp profile of the amp (made with same dibox and wiring) - solide state amp - guitar cab
The test n° 2 is useful for understanding what part of the loss is due the Kemper and what just in signal conversion. The number one obvioulsy is the parameter for realism. The tone of the test 2, so di box into solid state and no profiling at all, miss a bit of articulation and lively respect the pure all tube situation. Similar but not as good (not bad anyway!), so this is yet a response of where loss start in my tests. An interesting comparation is bethween the test 2 and 3, for an evaluation of the Kemper realism in the di box profiling. A bit of loss even here (so test 2 worst than 1 and test 3 worst than 2) and the tone is darker, even if some equalization can balance that (i'm not 100% convinced about the re equalization of the monitor output without cab). But for my ears anyway a loss can be eard, not a great deal, but yet audible. If the comparison is from the tube amp (1) and the Kemper Amp in solid state and cab (3) the difference is pretty heavy, the tone is close but without colors, colder.
The good part with Kemper side, anyway, is that moving some value into the amp stack tone can be improved, surpassing the test 2 and reducing the lack of articulation and harmonics. I'm not totally sure if i'm moving into a closer tone to the reference amp, but surely adding something like bias and power sagging make the profiled amp "breath" in a tube perspective. Is a sort of backdoor to recover a part of the harmonics missing from the original tone, maybe not exactly same harmonics, but for my ears is surely better than a direct comparison between test 1 and 3. For this reason i said at the start of the post that a sort of a di enhancer focused to underline the tube character will be useful, for play "hotter" tone and compensate the loss of harmonics of the direct input usage (at least the loss it seem to my ears in my test with that amp).
If the cabinet block in the profiled bulk amp is active, the tone is totally different and much darker like a sort of default cab is added. The similiar tone are from the reference amp WITH the cab on (Test 2) and the profiled amp with the cab off (Test 3). I spend the night thinking on it. The better tone in Test 1 from Test 2 can be caused for some factors, as in first case the dibox is directly into mixer and in the second that make lot of routing before go into mixer (and it take another AD/DA conversion), anyway the difference is not huge.
I will do a try today or when i find time to do. I'll try this routing:
my tube head - dibox (routed into a mute cab i used in past for silent recording) - solid state amp - guitar cab
I want to understand if this tone is also much worst than the tube one (so Kemper Amp is innocent and do a good job), or is quite better than the profiled one. I've some other tries in mind. I want also do a comparision bethween a tone from a cab leaving the cabinet in a second time, and the tone profiled directly without cab. How good is the cab removing? The tone profiled with a full chain used without cab are still realistic?
Maybe the usage as an amp head is a quite new role for the Kemper Amp (the powered version is recent) so we can expect further improvement.
Woah. I made some try and i find some strange stuff. I post the files here.
Test 1: my head on dibox and no cab emulation into mixer, direct recorded here
Test 2: my head on dibox into Kemper Amp in reference mode with the cabinet button ON (the fact i can leave off a cabinet for an external source it is weird, but results active by default profiling mode) here
Test 3: my profiled tone after a deep refining and with cabinet turned off here
Test 4: my head on dibox into Kemper Amp return with the cabinet button OFF here
The result is weird, and for this reason i made all that confusion. Let's go in order with my impressions:
Test 1: i'm not sure it's a perfect tone, but the dibox is active so it should correct the impedance (i used in past even to correct the passive pickup signal before the audio card with good results). Is quite bright signal as you can listen.
Test 2: unexpected. The reference amp in profile mode is darker, not very much but is quite audible. So the amp that should represent the original tone seem not as good as the tone into the mixer. The cabinet button is on by default.
Test 3: the profiled amp with the cabinet on is much darker (is some a virtual cab is in some way added during profiling) but turning off the cabinet, it lightly less brilliant than the Test 2 tone but more or less, quite similar. Still darker than previous test and far from Test 1.
Test 4: if you turn off the cabinet button from the reference amp in the profile mode, so from the external amp (how you can turn off the cab in an external amp??), the tone became absolutely bright and fuzzy with ton of harmonics. I intended this tone as the "regular" tone from the head in previous post and tries, but after listening the mixer one i'm not so certain.
What i'm quite certain is than on the guitar cab, i felt the difference and is quite huge. I'm in doubt now if the real tone of the head is the totally harsh (but very rich in harmonics) Test 4 with reference amp into Kemper with cabinet off, or Test 1 into the mixer. I'm trending to image the Test 4 is the closest because is way far the brighter and the difference i can listen in the real cab is huge.
Sorry if i'm unclear, it is a quite complex things to say (and my english is not good). Maybe with your contribute i can understand better, or we can find a closest interpretation of the result of those tests. Thank you again for your replies. mp3 has some loss from uncompressed tone, but more or less i think the difference bethween tests can be easily listened.
I tried to refine and refine, but those high harmonics buzzing won't appear. I tried to cut of the presence and high before profile for increase after profiling. In my mind i tried everything, but if you reach to obtain same tone of your bulk amp something is wrong or missing.
I'll try to do an audio record of the whole procedure so you can listen (maybe compression cut off lot of articulation, but i'm quite sure the difference is to big). Maybe i can post also the file of the profile. I forgot to mention my firmware, i've the 1.7.0, but i've a remind of that fact a year ago with an older firmware (at time i noticed but i was not trying to use like an head for a guitar cab)
Very good, this is what i wanted to read, thank you. So now i'm asking myself what can be the cause of behavior of my Kemper...
Sure, i turned off the cab emulation. But this is not a problem, even playing during the profiling process the signal from reference amp remain totally different from the profiled one so the "problem" is after the profiling process, not in the di capturing. I used before the Kemper Amp a lot real heads with software cab emulation for recording, so i've an idea on how should work the whole part. The spectrum analyzer it's an idea, but even by ears it's not a light difference, it's huge how many harmonics are missing. Huge on headphones into Kemper Amp, huge listening in a real cab.
I repeat the question (it's complicate explain in english, this can be an easy way to understand what i'm trying to do). Someone has profiled his real head and used a powered Kemper Amp on a guitar cab, and can say no difference or minimal difference bethween drive the cab with the tube amp and with the powered Kemper?
I'm not arguing if i can obtain great tones with a guitar cab, but if a powered Kemper Amp can reproduce exactly the tone of my head into my cab. At the moment i would say "no" and i would LOVE to do this.
I think to profiled correctly the amp, with mics i ever reach total satisfying results in profiling with 100% of the tone here. I saw some di box profiles, but my actual goal is to have the tone of the amp without a cab to obtain same (or similiar, i understand there are difference in any kind of tube or solid power amp) result with the same cab i used with real amp. The frequencies i am talking about are very very high, higher than the presence i can add in the Kemper equalization. But this buzzing with my Alnico Blue make a big difference in overtones i ear. And i can notice a missing on this frequencies even in the other profile than are stunning with cab on used with the cab turned off (and are still stunning with real cab, just darker). Anyone has tried an a/b comparation with his real head and real cab using a powered kemper on that cab?
I'm thinking if necessary (i need some time) to record in mixer the reference real amp, the profiling and the result and post here. Maybe (i hope, i really want this feature!) i'm doing something wrong or something is not working as it should. But it seem like a sort of filter for noise focused on frequencies than a miced electrical guitar should not play stop Kemper from reproduce on the amp stage all the harmonics and buzz.
Hi everyone. I want share and ask suggestion for an interesting try i made on late days. I tried a quick search on the forum for see if this question was yet made without results, so forgive me if this a sort of double post of a similar discussion.
After a abundant year with my Kemper Amp and a full range usage, i'm doing some trying with real guitar cabs and solid state amplification. Results is very good indeed, but i notice (i noticed even a year ago, but it was not searching in that direction) a missing part in overtone and harmonics.
So i did this experiment. I profile a guitar head (a Cicognani Brutus, a modern sounding italian tube amp) with a di box without cab. The Kemper Amp can profile the whole chain, and you can turn off even the cab, but how be sure or "measure" if the amp alone is profiled in a right way? My suppose was than if i can reproduce the di box tone, with a good linear power stage i can afford a very similar head reaction.
The result (better avoid long posts with my horrible english!) is no. The overall very high range of harmonics (those who kill your ears) of a direct head profiled without cab cannot be profiled. I tried to re equalize, various try, various volumes. But this part of frequencies in the profiled amp are missing, and this make sense as even without headphone i can distinguish in my guitar cab the Kemper Amp and was darker and empty on the harmonics side. Obviously i tried before a common profiling with a cab connected to the head, and turning off the cab i miss the same harmonics i'm talking about.
I find even some strange behavior (you can turn off cab or amp in the reference amp tone? how i can turn off something in an external real amp??). But the final meaning of my try was: can i simply have a valid substitution of an head not for record (this is out of doubt, the Kemper can achieve any micced tone in a great way) but for "in your face" usage? I'm not really interested at all to make a Vox play like a Dual Rectifier, this is acoustically not possible, but my question (and need) is if i can realistically can substitute with Kemper + linear amp a real head for use with a cab.
I'm very curios to read your opinions and your suggestions, or if someone has tried and maybe solved (i'm doing something wrong?) this need or is someway this feature is planned as a future feature (the no cab profiling, maybe in the same screen of distorted-clean profiling screen).
Thank you very much, i'm going to try it because i want to profile some heads with a mute speaker and a di box importing the cab from the KPA. I would try yet the cabinets of your last profiles, that play superb, but this one is even better. Thanks!
be sure my ears works! even if it's not a so interesting thing to see, i link the vid i did for the support this monday (audio is out of sync but it is understandable). With some tones is much evident, so here the difference seem light (it isn't) anyway we're using a top notch amp profiler to obtain a high fidelity, and at least the tone should be all the same and not changing at his will. In the vid seem it is influenced by the order (maybe the previous profile damaged de sequels) but in trying it seem randomly or anyway not so easy to understand. It did sometime even with KPA with a just one profile, so the previous damage won't explain. It seem simply when the tone is loaded, something go wrong or go well for a not clear reason.
Maybe some of you discover that the tone you listen to my profile in your KPA was not the original one but the boxed, but you really can't say because you don't know how it should be or you don't spend you time putting and leaving a tone you don't liked.
Ok, all of you know my detailed history! My KPA now is re-installed, safe and well working. Anyway the boxed thing some time is not over... i need time, but i can say for sure it did on my profiles and not with bundle. It is not related to hex editing, i try to re-install (now i can do i'm enjoying it ) and put just 1 profile, my Bogner that is never be edited in any way. Boxing is here. I update at public beta, and do the same. Boxing is here still. I'm starting to think that my profiles was strange in some way not for the hex stuff, but because my software had some previous problem (in fact the restore put KO my device). That seem a reasonable hypothesis. A good question will be "and if you profile now, after re-install and upgrade at 1.0.1, will be boxing again?". I let you know. I'm very happy now because i was a week without my baby and i risk to stay several weeks waiting for a repair in guarantee, so all this can be solved in some way. I wanted just keep you informed. Thanks again for your great support here in the forum
sure you right! grazie
What a lovely forum friends, very thanks to all! mDan won as first
I can say i use his backup (not single rigs) and it work without problem for me, so my back was really corrupted.
The minimum i can do for you is to do some nice profiles to share in future. If i catch the occasion (i can reach one to profile but not now... but i think one day to find occasion to go there) i am going for a Mesa Boogie Lonestar in a perfect condition + BB Preamp. You will be the first to notice and to download it when i can
+++ SOLVED +++
This is quite absurd, now my KPA works. (or seem to work i can't play now but it boot perfectly, no error). Support says me today to ship back, anything else can't be done from here. So i reply that, as i had to ship, i will try a procedure i was suggesting them for a pair of day (suggested by a great forum use via PM to be honest). As i felt "guilty" because i changed a name in the file sharing suffering on the net (such a criminal act! )i really don't wanted to do anything of my head, i suggest but be still. Anyway when i read "ok you need to ship back", this is the time to try. 10 seconds and it boot! Solved.
The cause in my crash was the backup corrupted, and the backup was previous to my profiles, editing, and things like this. Even from support, they try my profiles and says there are nothing strange in it. So my idea is something was wrong on my software, when i backup this thing was captched and restoring the bug block the boot sequence. As i init my software, no profiles are in it, and if i put my backup i get same identical error. So the hex editing consequence seem has nothing to do with blocking restore. I will tell you if the strange boxing speaker come back... maybe now.
At the moment anyway i miss the bundle rigs, i have a global backup but i've not saved separate rigs. I've just all mine and yours... some of you got it?
N.B. I tried several times (now i have a reset and a "clean" Kemper") to put in and delete my Vox profiles, it never crashed. So maybe it was a coincidence...
Unfortunately not. There where two more profiles from rafport.
"AC4TV" and "4W On Fire!"
I have deleted the Bogner and the AC4TV profile from my KPA. When I try to delete "4W On Fire!" the unit freezes. After pulling the mains and back on everything seems fine but the 4W On Fire is still alive.
I'm so sorry about this, i really don't intend damage anyone (i wanted do just the opposite, share some nice tones!). Anyway, just to put more confusion, when i deleted my profiles i have any problem and any crash. Different behavior form KPA to KPA. It seem also that there are some major bugs in the profile loading, and maybe my "bad story" will be useful to a proper check for strings and values before load into memory and generate errors or overflow.
To be safer anyway i deleted the link for the Vox tone, and i will profile again in future, so if something "deadly" is on it (my nick? ?() no more users will touch it. Newer firmware anyway really need to see those bugs solved.
Hi. To be clear (as i really don't want anyone had my problems) i will tell you exactly what i did, what it happen, so maybe this can be of help for all of you:
1) the only edited tone from me is the Vox one. I did because the profiling compilation is not so clear and you can't go back. Now i saw how to do without edit anything. The Bogner one was profiled properly, never edited.
2) the boxed effect i had on my KPA before the corruption of the firmware it was even in some of your profiles (i use mine mostly, but at the end it was even in the other profile i was testing). For example i eard on the Petrucci Mesa one profiled from the Axe, and in the JCM 800 and Rivera. It seem not to be present in the bundle profiles but i had not enough time to say because all this happens in a pair of day, and seem going worst time to time. (and i'm not a pro player, i had to work on life so time is limited )
3) the Vox and the Bogner profiles was used by other guitarists that never noticed any strange behavior. Point 2 and 3 seem to demonstrate the box effect was not into profile, but a bug in the firmware. Even other things you read after seem collimate this hypothesis.
4) my KPA crashed easily if i play with the cabinet setting from the day 1, it did with bundle firmware, it did with the 6900 (my actual firmware). Maybe it is a common bug, but if your KPA won't crash moving values and changing cabinets, mine it did before any profiling or any save of my data. Had problem with cabinets from very first use.
5) when i did a restore, hoping to solve the boxing bug, i did a restore of a polished Kemper Amp so no profile added from bundle, not mine, not your, so not editing of any kind can cause the block. It was a backup of the brand new KPA. The USB was well formatted, so no corruption in the backup and no error appear during restore (it should do a checksum before start): it end and after reboot KPA can't end the boot. More: to be safest, before the backup i deleted all my profiles, all my cabinets, all my snapshot. I went as prudent as i can be.
6) error is on the /framework/midi directory, i never connected any midi peripheral to my KPA, it was on my future plan but at the moment was side to my Mac so i really don't need any external pedalboard. So i never changed any setting value into the midi parameters.
I received just now a mail from support, i've not a solution but maybe we're going for... i cross my finger. I let you know, i guess anyone will be happy to know a corrupted firmware can be restored (as the code now has various bugs and the KPA is a very complex piece of hardware/software) without shipping.
Anyway, i don't thing that the edit of the profile to change "Me" in "Rafport" is connected with all the bugs it happens. If a such change can produce all this deadly effect (even after be canceled!) any serious bug is present somewhere. The worst things should happen for a bad profile is to crash when you load it (the right thing is to refuse the profile). All this seem different. Anyway i'm not a technician (to be honest i am but not for the KPA ) so i really can't be sure of anything. I want just to play (and profile, i've some other interesting things to profile and share)
Please also send an email to Kemper support. Not sure if they can keep track of all the posts here??
I informed them immediately. I'm still in waiting in a solution from them... i'm sure it is a way to reinstall the firmware from an external support/computer, and all maintenance menu works. Anyway it absurd for a bug, with a proper well working hardware, to send back in Germany and wait hoping to see mine within a pair of weeks at least (but can be much longer) for put a firmware into. I know this things can happen but just for this if the system is not very stable it should have a recover. Mine dead just because i do the recover! (for correct the bug at start of this post).
So i hope is there a solution. If a damage broke something it would be just as sad, but it would be broken, you can't do anything. This is very different.
Let's see what it will happen and what support ask me to do
eh si, modestamente lo nacqui! speriamo bene, vi terrò informati... rispedire indietro un dispositivo per una cosa simile mi da davvero fastidio. Se non fossi soddisfatto quanto invece sono di come suona, credo l'avrei presa proprio male perché non mi era mai successa una cosa simile per attrezzatura musicale (che di solito anzi è pensata per usi intensivi in condizioni variabili, rimanendo sempre affidabile). Anche il Nova System si è lasciato aggiornare via prese midi, e non ha manco una interfaccia usabile, possibile che non fa a fare una chiavetta di boot e a ripristinare questo?