Posts by Tritium

    I'm sticking to my original prediction that it's a custom version of the Celestion K12H-200TC, or maybe even the K12H-100TC.


    Indeed, Ben, you may be right. However, I have to say that the statements and promotion by Kemper, in word and in print calling this a "full-range" speaker, are a bit peculiar, if this indeed a whizzer cone-based driver such as the Celestion K12H-200TC...because in no audio world that I know of would that be considered "full range". Heck, Celestion's own spec page shows frequency range as: 50-10,000Hz.


    Now, don't get me wrong. I am sure CK knows what he is doing, and I am pretty confident that whatever speaker solution is used in the Kemper Kabinet will work just as he intends. But I find it a bit curious that he has a problem with the term FRFR, apparently only when it comes to the "Flat Response" part of the quasi-acronym. Seems to me, that he should equally have a problem using the "Full-Range" terminology, if this is a single-driver/voice-coil whizzer cone speaker based upon the K12H.


    Note following link:

    https://www.gearnews.com/namm-…binet-1x12-cab-announced/


    Quote

    Whenever you switch to a full range sound, for an acoustic guitar the Kemper Kone will switch to Full range Mode automatically for you. Music that is fed into the Profiler through the Aux Input will also be played back in Full range Mode.

    Hello Waraba,


    From what I can gather, the Kemper Kone function will only be activated when the Cab Module is disabled...and I believe that this will only be applicable and specific to the KPA's Monitor/Speaker Output. Please see video below, beginning at timestamp 03:18.


    I presume you will always be using the KPA Cabinet profiles (Cab Module on) when you are recording direct, and/or playing through your studio reference monitors. Furthermore, I presume you would not be using the Monitor/Speaker Output for connection to these devices. Therefore, the Kemper Kone (imprints) will not be applicable, nor part of the signal to these devices.


    Firstly, can you name one company that makes a modeling product that charges for their editor? Secondly, considering the amount of time the development team has put into development of this editor, I doubt Christoph would terminate it simply because some people expressed their desire for Windows 7 support. Lastly, Windows 7 comprises almost half of Windows users, and that translates to a lot of Kemper users at the moment.


    Hello ColdFrixion,


    My opening sentence was meant as hyperbole, and tongue-in-cheek.

    Nevertheless, i imagine it might be frustrating to the Kemper development, design and support team to read some of these comments. I am not pointing at any specific comments/complaints/demands...I am speaking in general. It is not my attention to offend anyone.

    I am a bit worried that CK reads this thread, throws his hands up in utter exasperation, and calls the whole thing off.


    We are finally getting an Editor, wonderfully integrated into Rig Manager...something people have been asking for and crying for years. Now, that it is coming, for absolutely FREE...and already the whining and complaining has begun.

    You're right. It Need not to Sound bad at all, but possibly less authentic .


    Are you sure, that the Kemper Kabinet has been constructed according toTHIELE/Small-size Parameters?

    This would explain to me, that in one Namm-videos someone lifted the Kabinet and told it wasn't that light-weighted at all. We all know, that a Thiele-Cab is pretty heavy .

    Hello Hurricane,


    I probably shouldn't have used such definitive/absolute language.


    While I am not 100% certain that the Kemper team used Celestion's T/S specifications for the speaker in question...let's say that I can't imagine Kemper engineers not taking into account the T/S data and constraints in the final cabinet construction and design.

    and as an ammendment:

    also the cab-size/-construction/-material has a great Impact to the Sound. That's why I'd prefer to use the Kemper-Kabinet instead of a standard- or custom-built cab. The Speaker imprints and the DSP-programming surely had been designed with the Prototype of a Kemper Kabinet.


    I am absolutely certain this is true. That is not to say that retrofitting a shipped-loose Kemper Kone speaker into an already existing guitar cabinet will sound bad...


    However, the Kemper team certainly designed and tuned the Kemper Kabinet in accordance to Celestion's recommended Thiele/Small parameters, and developed the KPA "Kemper Kone" DSP algorithms based upon the as-engineered, as-built cabinet/speaker system.

    Ok, I promised I’d stop posting for a while, but I downloaded the demo today and used it on a session. Verdict : TH-U is a really nice a guitar VST; the Rig Player is rubbish, at least at the present time.


    Thanks for the feedback and your impressions, Sam. Very interesting read.


    Ah, thanks azertyvince...I had misunderstood your specific issue.

    Indeed, you are correct, and raise a good point. If you have made your own effect presets, storing them with a unique name, then when you copy / incorporate that effect preset into a Rig, the preset name does not carry over into the Rig.

    So, unless you make some external notes or log, you may not remember what specific preset was used in that Rig, after a period of time has transpired.


    Cheers,

    John

    Today, if i choose a rig, i'm not able to know what preset effect name it has.


    Hello azeryvince,


    I am confused with your statement / question. A "preset", by definition, is an effect that has specifically tweaked parameters. For example, the factory Reverb "presets" that are offered in Kemper's new Beta release, have been given certain individualized names -- they have to, because by definition, a preset has to have a name associated with it -- that is the only way it can be stored.


    When you load up some arbitrary Rig in Rig Manager (or a Rig contained within the KPA), it will tell you what the effect type is

    (e.g. Reverb --> Natural Reverb), but it will not have an effect "preset" name associated with it, for one of two obvious reasons:


    A) The effect never started its life as a "preset" in the first place.

    B) If the effect originally used an effect "preset" as its original basis, it probably has been subsequently tweaked and modified, as it became part of a finalized "Rig".


    Hello Mikkoha,


    Thank you for your feedback and observations. Indeed, I am keeping my fingers crossed that the Celestion speaker in the forthcoming Kemper Kabinet is a variant of the F12-X200 coaxial.

    Be sure to look at the News page on the Kemper Amps site, some very interesting info there. From reading this and what was said at NAMM, I'm beginning to be convinced that the Kemper Kone is not a F12-X200, but a proprietary design unique to Kemper. The Kemper Celestion appears to be basically a fuller range driver that can do FRFR to a point, but the dispersion of the highs is controlled to be more like a standard guitar speaker. Maybe a variant of the F12-X200?


    Hello MKB,


    Christoph has already stated, in multiple interviews, that the Kemper Kone is a proprietary speaker designed and built by Celestion for Kemper. With that said, I have been saying all along that this could simply mean that it is a "tweaked" variant of their new F12-X200, which Celestion will private label for Kemper GmbH -- which by definition, makes it "proprietary" or "bespoke".

    Christoph has been VERY careful with his words in every video I've seen. Not once has he referred to the new speaker driver as "FRFR" or "coaxial" or "twin driver" or "full-range" or anything like that. But he does say "broadband" a lot, which is typically a term used to refer to a single driver.


    If I were a betting man, I'd bet it's based on the Celestion K12H-200TC.


    Hi Ben,


    Actually, Christoph utters the term "full-range" a few times during the following interview. He uses the term at time-stamp 01:09, and again at 02:34. Also, he uses the term "FRFR" at 02:36 (even though he says he doesn't like the term). He doubles down on the term "full-range" at 03:08.



    Futhermore, the term "Full-range" is used in the official Kemper Namm 2019 news release:


    "Music that is fed into the PROFILER through the Aux Input will be played back in full-range mode, even when you play your amp with a Speaker Imprint, both at the same time."

    Kemper Namm 2019 Post-mortem


    Now, with all that said, it is certainly possible that Kemper is going to use a variant of the Celestion K12H-200TC....however, looking at the frequency-response of that speaker, IMHO it would be very misleading to describe it as "full-range". The K12H-200TC drops off the cliff above 10 Khz.


    Cheers,

    John

    Didn't know that..thanks

    I thought it was a whizzer cone (didnt know the word but I knew the concept. "coaxial double cone" was my workaround). But if i usually filter at 7kHz..will I benefit from it?


    Hello Voider777,


    If you have a high cut/low-pass filter set at 7 Khz, then certainly you are not going to be getting any noticeable audio content at higher frequencies, even if you are using the Kemper with Cabs enabled, and connected through a "FRFR" speaker system. However, for the Kemper Cab profiles to perform optimally, and reproduce the sound of the mic'd reference cabinet authentically, then the more linear (flat response) type of speaker system you have, the better...even if you are only trying to reproduce the frequency band (for example) between 90 Hz and 7 KHz.


    This is precisely why it will sound crappy when you try to send the KPA monitor out with Cabs enabled through a traditional guitar cabinet. When you do something like that, you are effectively sending the audio output signal through two EQ filters in series -- 1st, the KPA Cabinet profile is filtering the signal to recreate the reference (virtual) speaker. 2nd, the physical speaker in the traditional guitar cab is adding another stage of EQ filtering, through its natural frequency response characteristics. This is why the end result will sound dark and muddy, as if the speaker has been covered by a wet blanket.


    I realize you are probably already well aware of all this...and I only mention it to stress a point. Which is, ideally, an "FRFR" system is transparently reproducing the audio signal from the KPA monitor output, without imparting any undesirable "color", and certainly not acting as a secondary source of EQ filtering...which is what a traditional guitar speaker would be doing (with KPA Cabs enabled).


    So, to come full circle back to your original question, which is would you benefit from the new Kemper Kabinet? To answer that, requires asking back more questions:


    A) Do you foresee that you might ever take advantage of your KPA, with a full-range system such as the upcoming Kemper Kabinet, to play acoustic guitar?


    B) Do you foresee that you might take advantage of having the ability to playback full-range music (such as backing tracks) through your Kemper Kabinet, while you are playing guitar?


    C) Do you foresee that you would take advantage of the KPA's Kemper Kone physical speaker emulation, which the Kemper Kabinet has been specifically matched and tuned for? This promises to provide that true "amp-in-the-room" psycho-acoustic experience, by eliminating the influence of the microphone that is intrinsic to the process of profiling the amp/cabinet system.

    I would like to compare this new celestion F12-X200 versus beyma 12ga50, it is the same concept I think, coaxial double cone.

    Hello voider777.


    The Beyma is not a coaxial speaker. It is a single driver with a whizzer cone, and these types of speakers cannot reproduce high frequency audio content with any sort of reasonable accuracy. This would include the upper harmonics/overtones from, for example, an acoustic guitar...to say nothing of the acoustic instruments typical in an orchestral track (including violins, piano, flute, piccolo, etc.). The Beyma 12GA50 has a pretty steep drop-off above 10 KHz, and is a completely different animal vs a true coaxial, such as the Celestion F12-X200. The Celestion F12-X200 has a true HF compression driver...and has a built-in crossover circuit. It can reach the upper range of harmonic content, all the way up to 20 Khz.


    Cheers,

    John


    Sounds great, digBob. Glad it is working out wonderfully for you.


    Hoping that the new Kemper Kabinet is in fact based upon a version of the Celestion F12-X200.