Posts by ckemper

Quote from digbob

Heres a Picture Left is KPA SPDIF Vol @ 0 latest Beta

on the right KPA Analog out Amp Vol @ 0 [email protected] 0

Fender Rig

Thats what i mean, not useable far away from what i call a good Input gain

with the latest release the gains were even with this settings

Thanks for this pic.

What you get now, is the very original digital signal that is happening in the Profiler.

The Profiler leaves enough headroom for upward dynamics.

Boosting this signal before SPDIF does not improve the signal at all, but clipping SPDIF is at risk.

In difference to an analog signal, boosting a digital signal does not have any positive effect, since you don't level an analog device.

Thus, this is a good input gain.

Boosting it in the DAW is fine however, because there the signal processing does not have a clipping limit.

Be aware, that in the DAW mixer, you will approach a 0 dB headroom anyway, so I assume you would have attenuated the Profiler coming in at -6 dB anyway.

With the latest release the gains would not have been equal still, since your picture shows a 12 dB difference.

Quote from digbob

with the now introduced -6 db my Universal Audio Apollo system reads -12 db on this input

before i had a very useable gain structure with the Kemper spdif volume set to 0, now its way to low

this all makes no sense to me, please revert to the former spdif gain

everybody who needs less gain can simply turn the vol knob of spdif, now set to 0 the spdif out gives way to less

Output, not useable in my opinion

youre suggestion is good, no spdif vol knob but a switch with -12 db

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This -12 dB is the amp signal (distorted) or the DI signal?

Quote from lightbox

If I record Git Studio through S/PDIF, I want to be able to reamp using exactly this same level going back into the Profiler through S/PDIF. It's been 10 years I didn't have to worry about reamping levels. And now, for no good reason, you've changed that?

If I ever had to do small changes to the reamping level, I'd do it in TotalMixFX. But I leave the recorded DI track in the DAW 100% untouched.

That is probably the main issue.

I broke the Profilers promiss to maintain the relation of DI output versus reamping sensitivity.

I have missed to correct that sensivity by the same 6 dB. This will follow very soon!

Thanks for this hint.

Quote from lightbox

Oh, seems like I forgot some more examples outside the reamping situation.

2. How do you know how "hot" the signal coming out of the Profiler is? If you think of a very soft signal, e.g. some very mellow playing without any strong transients, does that actually need a forced -6dB pad to please the -12dB RMS police? Hardly.

That is the point where the 0 dbfs is a moving target.

A dynamic signal that has not gone through a limiter (e.g. at mastering) yet, is always prone to be pretty soft, or hit the full scale boundaries the next second.

When we investigated the complaint issues of "too much digital level", I found out that the SPDIF level gets internally boosted by 6 dB, which does not do any good. I got rid of this internal 6 dB boost as a consequence.

Seen from the Profilers perspective, we have brought back the signal to our 0 dbsf definition.

So I must assume that the SPDIF would have been unusable from day one, if we have had a 6 dB lower level since?

There is actually no defined 0 dB level when converting an analog input into a digital signal.

You have no input volume control on your DAW to leverage?

How do you control your reamping level in general?

Hi Guys,

This volume drop is done in purpose.

Whe have got complaints that the digital volume into a DAW is much too high, compared to usual volumes.

About 12 dB too high.

This is why probably we had multiple user requests years ago for a SPDIF volume control, something that I never really liked.

I had originally planned to make an attenuation of 12 dB, to match the typical RMS of a DAW and thus avoid the use of either SPDIF volume or DAW channel gain to match the perceived volume to the DAW.

What do you think?

What kind of specific problem would that induce?

The gain stage of most tube amps are about as neutral as the Profiler, with little coloration.

So they act as a booster as well.

Therefore your perceptions are not exactly right.

Exceptions are the Marshall JCM800 and Plexi.

There is too much talk behind this aspect and no real evidence.

Never heard of any Profiler user making the easy test while profiling to check for different colors of the gain controls.

Quote from Antipodes

I was describing my experience with some profile sets. So I am trying to reconcile my experience with what you are saying here.

By unity do you mean unity gain over the input level? Or unity as in a standard RMS or peak volume level?

I have many profiles and some are much louder than others. It is possible to boost the level of a quieter profile in the parameters of the profile as I described and I have done this and the result is a louder profile, not clipping. So clearly, the KPA has headroom to cope with boosting in this way. Some profiles may be boosted perhaps after profiling by vendors. Another possibility is that clean profiles are not as compressed as profiles taken at higher gain levels, so subjectively, they are louder even though at peak levels (eg in attack transients) may be more nearly similar in level.

Yes, I mean unity RMS level on the output. The RMS is true for distorted as well as clean profiles.

The balance between clean and distorted Rigs is then set by Clean Sense individually.

And yes, the Profiler has a lot of headroom. It is especially necessary for the peaks of a clean guitar.

We are on a thread about Kabinet and loudness. It is not necessary to boost the volumes of the profiles, to reach the maximum rating of the Kabinet. This is done by the controls as described.

Quote from Antipodes

chu

That is true - lots of quieter profiles out there. You can boost the volume of overly quiet profiles in several ways. Eg - you can get into the amplifier parameters and boost the volume there and play with other parameters like compression if you need to. Save your edits and you can match the volume of profiles that are too quiet for you to the louder ones.

It seems quite common for professional profilers to do a profiling run with different gain levels on the amp they are profiling, starting with gain/volume pots down at 9 o'clock and gradually turning up for the progressively dirtier profiles. The result of profiling this way is loud dirty profiles and very much quieter clean profiles.

If you are setting up a Performance with a set like this, you will likely want to boost the volume of the quiet clean profiles to better balance the levels.

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This is not exactly true, as mentioned above.

Quiet Profiles are not a problem.

And.. it is not possible to create quiet or loud Profiles. Every Profile is set to a unity level during the Profiling process.

The user has no influence to that whatsoever.

Quote from chu

FWIW, when I first spent time with my Kemper, i chose a number or profiles and immediately set to using them at rehearsals. Having levelled them all for my needs, with the loudest I use falling just short of clipping the output, I ALWAYs find professional and RigManager content to be significantly quieter.

There might already be untapped headroom in the profiles which hold back the full output.

All factory profiles and commercial profiles are set to mostly standard levels, that is Amp Volume and Rig Volume at Noon (+- zero dB).

There is no need to push the Rigs to just below clipping.

By using max volume on the Power Cabinet chickenhead the headroom of both devices are perfectly matched.

Then use Power Amp Boost at +6 dB or more, and dial your required volume by using „Monitor Volume“. You can easily reach (and exceed) the 200W rating by this. Hence the Wattage Meter in the Kemper Kone Menu.

The OP might have missed to check Monitor Volume. If it was e.g. 12 dB lower, you reach only a 16th of the power, that is 12.5W only.

Quote from jackk100

FYI, after pushing the Power Amp Boost all the way up, the powered Kabinet was plenty loud enough to be heard by our loud drummer behind his kit.

Per recommendations that I've read, I had the Kabinet turned all the way up and controlled the overall volume using the Master volume on my unpowered toaster, which I did not have to max out.

Hi!

You did not explicitly mention that you have checked Monitor Volume, that is only controlled relatively to Master Volume. Therefore I assume that the Monitor Volume is set pretty low, which might have been the problem.

The Monitor Volume is visible on the Kemper Kone page.

My two cents:

All your sounds do sound very right to me.

Yes, your initial example has some boomy palm mute low end, but that is natural.

However, the bass drum in your drum track was much more boomy!

It is a normal step to attenuate and control the palm mute energy in a mix, by applying a low shelf.

- 6 dB is not a shameful value at all when fitting a guitar amp into a mix.

For balancing your sound, try different pickup settings and adjust the Amp Definition control to your liking.

CK

Quote from KnoxHarrington

Quoted by the great mr. Kemper, that already made my day, thanks!

My source is Analogman:

http://www.analogman.com/ts9.htm (section on modding the OD808)

https://www.analogman.com/tshist.htm

I actually had a lengthy email conversation with them when I first read their statement of the OD808 having the same circuit as the TS10. They confirmed it numerous times. I though the source was legit.

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The OD808 uses an operational amplifier, as the TS10, while the TS808 uses a transistor. This is probably what AnalogMan refers to.

Sonically, it doesn't make a difference.

While both the TS808 and OD808 feature roughly the same output resistors, the TS10 (and TS9) output resistors differs significantly.

That makes the difference.

The AnalogMan page is more designed like a wine tasting. It doesn't go deeper into technical details, which is fine.

Ask AnalogMan if the circuit is the same, but the resistor values are different.

There is another source going more detailed into techical and tonal differences:

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/tstech/tsxtech.htm

We did listening tests and it would not be honest to state that we heard a difference between the TS808 and OD808. We did not.

The TS9 and TS10 are slightly brighter, but this can be achieved by increasing the tone control by a few degrees.

Quote from lightbox

And I have assured you in the past that you don't

Just as a reminder (and for those who haven't watched):

You have sucessfully proven that the Klon Centaur blends over from an Overdrive to a fantasic transparent (pure) booster at low to zero gain settings, no distortion produced.

In combination with the internal conversion to 18 volts supply power it exceeds many analog devices on the market. The tone control still delivers shelving equalizer characteristics in this mode.

The Profiler goes beyond that. You can use any of our equalizer types in front of your amp, shape the sound with much more than just one tone control and boost into the amp with up to 24 dB.

In this thread however, it is about Overdrives in their distorting range and their tonal habits.

I can dig more into details if requested.

Quote from JoshuaL1

hi and thanks for the answer.

Never made any comparison, but it sounds like this to my ears. More like a layer on amp distortion.

And when I use them, even if I don’t push the gain I quickly get some kind of « artifacts » when the notes sustain. Happened with a lot of profiles (made by top tier guys like Bert etc). Some kind of high frequencies that sound more like noise than distortion.

I can assure you that you would get equal results with an equivalent analog setup.

Quote from JoshuaL1

Am I the only to not like the drives in the kemper?

They don’t act as regular drive pedal to me…

don’t know how to say it but they don’t « blend » with the amp profile like a pedal and a tube amp, to my ears it sound more like a « layer » of drive on the tone.

Any one think the same?

We have played our overdrives and distortions for months and compared it to the analog counterparts, to check the authenticity.

Have you made a comparison too?

Quote from KnoxHarrington

Really? I thought the Green Scream was modeled after the Maxon OD808 which is basically a TS10.

The differences between the TS and the OD are absolutely neglectable , while the TS9 and TS10 have modified resistors on the output, resulting in a slightly emphasized high end.

The Maxon is not basically a TS10.

Do you have different sources of information?

Quote from Kim_Olesen

The green scream is REALLY good. A bit different and less versatile than Kemper drive. But great in it’s own right.

Kemper drive is more TS10 like. Green Scream more like the classic TS.

You can directly compare the Green Scream and an appropriate preset of the Kemper Drive.

You might find that there is no audible difference.

At the same settings, the output level might differ by a fraction of a dB.

Quote from Kim_Olesen

Many years ago the kemper only had the green scream for that kind of drive. And it’s really really good. But the Kemper drive took things to a new level. The concept is brilliant. One ring to rule them all….

So i’d love one distortion pedal as versatile as the drive.

A good distortion before a clean amp , is just a different beast, than a distortion driving an already driven amp.

Late to the party, but some comments from me:

The Kemper Drive and Kemper Fuzz were possible as "One rule them all" models, because the several devices in Focus have a common architecture.

This is not the case for distortion pedals that are not part of the family of Overdrives or Fuzz.

Therefor I don't see a way to make a generic model, unfortunately.

Quote from RosboneMako

Thank you for clearing that up!

I think I mostly notice it on the Treble Booster because I love how the TB brings up the high frequencies post amplifier. It does not work with every profile though. So I like to A/B it on/off to compare. But you always have a louder signal when it is ON. So it becomes hard to compare if it is really helping the tone or just sounds better because it is louder. Mostly, because my hearing is pretty bad.

You are perfectly set up for an A/B comparison, when you leave the Mix control to max and untouched.

Adjust the intensity of the Treble Booster by "Tone" and change Volume to compensate, if required.

A/B by switching the effect on and off.

That's how it's done in the analog world since decades.

CK