Posts by ckemper

    An FR speaker SHOULD only put out what you put into it, but I don't believe there is a PERFECTLY FLAT speaker anywhere. I've never seen a frequency response chart for a speaker that was a flat line.

    But yes, there is.

    A frequency response chart does not need to be perfectly flat. What matters is that there is no tilted frequency response, that there is no larger regions differ completely from the zero line, and no smaller regions differ more than 1 or 2 dB.


    Many high quality monitor speakers are very flat. I took the Neumann 310 as a reference. Have a look at its frequency response and deviation. World class!


    I compared the FR sound of the Kabinet to the Neumann and applied tweaks. I spent another week with just listening A/B, but could not find any more frequency regions to correct. The last tweak was somewhere in the mid region and it was 1 dB.

    Listening to that, is it just me, or does it sound very hi-fi rather than earthy? Does my terminology make sense to anyone?


    Can feel my willpower start to fail me. I got to try one for myself haha

    Some feel it‘s bright, some hear a blanked.

    That‘s the way it is ... :)


    If you record a guitar speaker on axis, then it‘s always that bright.

    A recording can never tell you how it would sound in-the-room (sic!)

    I have a Mesa v30 here. The real cab just feel and hits harder and has a tight low end. I’m not knocking the kone technology, just the kab itself didn’t work for me. Maybe I’ll throw a pair of kones in a 2x12 or bigger cab one day. With the v30 imprints using DI profiles I just couldn’t get that same sound and feel of the real cab vs. the imprint. Doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just not for me. FRFR mode seemed about what I’d expect one to sound like.

    Is it a Mesa Thiele Box?

    For me it also is nasal and with blanket over the speaker.


    A classic speaker is supposed to sound like that, when you compare it to the FR sound.

    Nothing weird about that. It's revealing the truth about the difference between FR and cab-in-the-room sound.


    Do you have a guitar speaker available as a comparison?

    ckemper


    Were the Kone models designed to work perfectly with studio or merged profiles?


    I understand they work with either but I find the overall tonal character different with each.


    The Imprints were not designed towards a specific profile type, but to react as it would be a classic guitar speaker connected to the Profiler.


    Beside this point, it is known that Merged Profiles will provide a maximum authenticy when connected to a classic guitar speaker (and now Kone as well), while Studio Profiles do the connection by an approximation called "CabDriver", that extrapolates the best possible sound from the existing amp/cab combination.

    Thank you for your answer Christoph, and for your amazing gear.

    Yes, I read the part of the manual (IRTFM :) )about the Kone before posting and tried both. It seems you are right, the DXR12 is brighter and that is what I am used to.

    As you mentioned, the phone recording is not really "judicable"...

    A quick question though, what is the thickness of the Kabinet please ? Mine is 18mm thick.

    The Kabinet has different thickness of 10 to 20 mm.

    But the thickness does not have an influence on the highend frequencies.


    Have you tried the Monitor Equalizer?

    I have checked the TAF profile.

    Even though it is hard to judge by a phone recording, the sound seems to be the same that I have here on the Kone.

    Everything‘s ok, except that you are used to brighter sound reproduction by your DXF12.


    Have you tried the „Sweetening“ parameter in FR mode?

    Or „Directivity“ in Imprint mode?

    Well I sent my Kabinet back. Just wasn’t happy enough for $500 for my applications of med-high-heavy gain setup. As some have stated above I agree it did feel muffled or blanket over it. I wonder what V30 they modeled after...some certainly are more muffed like the Chinese ones. Listen to UK v30 in a Mesa vs. Orange there’s definitely a difference.

    That‘s bad. I assume that you did not have a real V30 available for a comparison.


    The speakers that we have modeled are more on the brighter side. The Kone features a slightly wider beam in addition, making the Imprint appear even a bit brighter in off-axis angles. This is why we have introduced the Directivity control for the users, to compensate this effect to your liking.



    Here are some general rule of thumps:


    The Kone/Kabinet is the first solution ever where you can compare the sound of a mic‘ed speaker versus the cab-in-the-room-sound, through the same speaker, by the simple press of a button, without a pause.

    These sounds are very different, in dependence of the gain you play. The more gain, the more difference.


    While classic guitar speakers sound more mid ranged, with a natural high end rolloff, the mic‘ed speaker will emphasize the bass (due to the proximity effect) and the high frequencies (in a favorable or nasty way, depending in the listener genre). In total, the mic’ed cabinet tends to have a scooped sound. This has always been like that.


    Clean players might not hear too much of a difference.

    Mid gain players tend to prefer the Imprints for its cab-in-the-room-sound and hate the high frequency phasyness of mic’ed speakers.

    High gain players (Metal, Djent) tend to prefer the mic’ed speakers for its extended low end and the phasyness that creates a signature sound. This is mostly lost by unifying and leveling down with the cab-in-the-room sound. Same happens when you use the PureCabinet feature. We had similar conversations when we introduced PureCabinet.

    Thank you man, I will record something tomorrow. the fact is, I am used to rehearse with two Yamaha DXR12, and the sound is nowhere like the one I get with the Kone in my cab. I know it is supposed to be different, but here it is TOTALLY different. SO different that I was wonderingif it could come from my cab structure or something wrong with my powered toaster...


    Welcome in the world of different speakers :)


    The key of your problem is obviously the DXR12, that you are familiar with.

    The Yamaha PA speakers are far from linear. They have exaggerated lows and highs. To compare them with an imprint or even a classic guitar speaker is comparing apples and asparagus.


    The F12 has exaggerated high frequencies as well. If you find those muffled, and you have assured that your Monitor EQ is set to flat, then you might have got too accustomed to the high frequencies of your Yamaha.


    Do you have any other fullrange speakers available for a cross check? A stereo, or studio monitor speakers?

    Interesting response.


    I wasn’t precise enough with my initial language. I KNOW that Aux in plays in FR mode. The post alerted to me to this, I then checked the manual. I was looking for more information - out of curiosity - on how this is actually programmed etc. It may be simple for most but I couldn’t understand how one ’signal’ could be FR and another with the imprints etc. I’ll keep my questions to myself.


    You’re easily insulted! If I created a product worth 4 digits and somebody purchased it, loved it, spent countless hours enthusiastically learning and was nothing but respectful and decent on my 22 year old forum - I’d be something other than insulted and certainly wouldn’t encourage others to feel so.


    Everyone has their area of expertise and this also allows the amount of time available to invest in a product or technology. Hopefully, when you step outside of your comfort zone people are more pleasant with you. Set an example of how you would like your community to interact with each other. There must be a code of conduct/house rules from 1998? So RTFM!


    I apologize to have put you in the focus. You will imagine that no user on this forum has more information about the Kone than what was written in the manual (posted on the first page of this thread), and you did not formulate a specific question. So to me your post looked like a dozen other posts on this thread.


    I appreciate that you have worked with the manual and I'm happy to answer your additional question. That's why I'm here.


    The FR technique and the Imprint technique are two separate concepts even technically, as you all experience. But both land on the same Kone, which does not change its physics, whether it i driven fullrange or by Imprint.


    Therefore a fullrange AUX signal and a Profile with Imprint can simply be mixed in the Profiler - like on a mixing desk - and played back by the same Kone together. While creating the suitable sounds for sure requires a reasonable amount of science, mixing them is no science.

    No magic required :)


    CK

    I thought I’d read a few days ago that the Aux input played through the Kone in FR mode even if the Kone and imprint are selected. Think it was Ingolf


    I can’t find the original post and wondered if anyone had anymore information on this? Purely for curiosities sake and the fact it’s blown my mind for 3 days:)


    Interesting to see users investing a 4 digit $ on innovative equipment, and then- instead of investing 10 minutes in reading a page or two in the manual - trying to retrieve a tiny trace of information posted by another user.


    Time for some of us to feel a bit insulted maybe.

    I wrote the manual in person and yes, Ingolf read the manual and posted that information :)


    We had our first user forum back in 1998, and the first internet abbreviation I have learned was RTFM. Half a decade before AFAIK and LOL came up :)))

    I mean it's a little of both. Clean/low gain/even medium gains sounds okay. It's the high gain stuff that doesn't sound good to my ears. Mr. Kemper is right that he said FRFR mode is provbably better for high gain stuff and I would agree, but then you lose the amp in the room idea. Hence, why I'll just stick with buying a regular 2x12 v30 cabinet for playing DI profiles in person and headphone studio profiles at night.

    Do you have experience with classic guitar speakers?

    Be prepared that a 2x12 v30 might not make a significant difference to a 1x12 or your 1x12 Imprint, to change the sound color to what you would expect.

    Try to equalize with the Monitor equalizer.

    Yes thank you - Air Chorus it's much much better than the CE1 Vintage Chorus. Much wider. I love the CE1 chorus on AD120 and actually run it depth 0 and speed 0 --- i actually dont like choruses too much, but I love the sound the subtle CE1 gives.

    Yup.

    The Air Chorus is inspired by the CE1 being run in the stereo configuration.


    While following the same principle (mixing modulated signals in the air), it circumvents the shortcomings of the vintage circuitry.


    It treats both sides equally in terms of modulation and frequency responce, and it allows for modulation depths down to zero.

    I knew that you would like it.

    I actually #RTFM first thing, but I generally think some info could be added to the use of direct profiles and how to make sure to get the best experience. That might reduce some confusion like I experienced myself when I got the Kabinet (for example Cab parameters are still active in Imprint Mode, etc). In the facebook user groups and some youtube videos about the Kab / Kone I've seen a tremendous amount of questions where people seem to have trouble to understand the features of the Kone, so I think a more detailed description might save the support team some work.


    Well, we make the observation that too many users don't read the documentation. You can tell that even some of the video creators have not cared about the manual. Improving the docs would not change the picture too much, I'm afraid ...

    This "easyness" is going to hunt your support team down for a few years, me think.

    Not so much. We sold a quite number of Kones and Kabinets already and only had a handful of requests.


    My question on the other hand is, since you are obviously not planning to use the Main Output for a mixing desk, but only the Kone/Kabinet.

    Are you doing gigs at all, or usually play at home / rehearsal room only?

    Or do you plan to mic your Kabinet?


    CK

    and with the Bass Boost option it sounds way bigger than it should based on its lightweight size.


    Please be aware that the Bass Boost is not made for making the Kone sound bigger. The manual will tell you the story.


    To adapt the sound to your expectations, the Monitor Equalizer is still active even for the Kone, to give you continuously variable controls and more suitable frequency selections.


    Especially the Bass control of the Monitor EQ kicks in at a lower frequency than the Bass Boost.

    Try it out!

    because with the CAB still on I felt like the sound was still colored in a way that dampened the sound. I have to admit, I think I should have kept my 4x12

    Turn "Directivity" to the full right.

    Then it's not colored for the on axis sound.