Posts by PHILBERT

I know exactly what guitar (and bass) tones I'm looking for, but searching through demos on YouTube is getting old. You know...10 minutes of monologue before you ever get to hear anything. Or some done so badly that you're sorry you wasted your time checking it. Not that they're all bad! It's just time consuming to wade through all the "hey guys" stuff and bad demos. Then you get lost and start to see the same ones over and over. There's got to be a better way!

Maybe Kemper could host a profile demo server site with rules about keeping it strictly to guitar sound. Put the long winded notes in the description, but keep the recording to guitar sound. I realize Rig Manager is sort of "that type of thing" with your guitar being part of the demo, but how would we know what the author intended? My run through the pre-loaded stuff didn't impress me much. Perhaps the wrong guitar?

Some sort of better demo system would help me find what I'm looking for without wasting money on profiles that don't work out.

Quote from MrMangofresh

Hi PHILBERT,

can you post a sample video of exactly the sound you're looking for? I'm a huge 800 fan myself, maybe I can help.

I don't know if it fits your expectations but I recently bought the JCM800ZW Pack from choptones and I'm totally blown away.
It's not only good for recreating the perfect Zakk Wylde tone, but also it has so many different Preamp, EQ, Pedal, Cab and Mic variations (I believe 150 profiles in total)
that it fits almost all my 800-needs from clean and bluesy to high gain. Maybe check it out.

Cheers, David

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Hi David,

I actually did put a post out of tones I'm looking for...

Seeking These Recorded Tones

No one answered, but that's OK. I'm becoming a dinosaur. Maybe a fossil.

ChopTones is on my list to check out, but I was searching for a realistic Recto tone when I spotted his videos. There was a French guy "Voron Guitar" who had the most honest Rectifier tone I have ever heard that I would buy in a second if I could find his profiles. Not a "mean" recto tone, but very realistic. The right stomps could make that profiled tone everything a Recto is known for. And that brings up another point...When profilers stick a Tube Screamer in front of the amp they profile, that colors the sound in a way that can't be undone. What a shame! Let the player add a TS808 stomp if they want that sound. I never liked that midrange sound anyway. Not my cup of tea.

Getting back to the JCM, I realize the bands I liked back then might have been using other amps to get that metal sound of that era. Queensryche may have used Bogner Fish...or whatever. Maybe it's the Marshall cabinet of that era that's missing from these profiles. Whatever Celestion speaker type was popular back then, I'm having trouble finding it. Then there are the guitar tuning issues on demos. I think it's strange when I hear real amp profile demos of 7 string guitars tuned "as low as they can go" emulating the buzzy sound of a modeler that sounds nothing like a real amp. I'm starting to think bad modeler "simulations" have shifted the guitar sound paradigm away from real amp sound to the point of it being expected out of REAL amps!

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll take another look at ChopTones.

Quote from StratGuru

Downloaded this and tried it through a 4x12 Mesa V30. Couldn't say I would tweak a thing. Nice work.

It's not a drastic departure from the original but, it does add something in the midrange area that I like.

Only tried with my trusty old Strat but overall I like it. Thanks!

Glad it works for you. And you're right...not that drastic from the original until you kick in the stomps and effects (mostly Boost, Comp and maybe Stereo Widener). The core tone was cleaned up as much as I could sway it. The effects, which are different from the original, put the sharp edge on it.

Is it the exact 80"s metal JCM 800 sound I'm wanting? No, but more of a flexible tone for general use. I Purchased the Top Jimi JCM 800 pack and have an issue with a frequency peak somewhere between 2K and 3K that I can't get rid of. No guitar I try helps that "horn" type sound. Studio monitors and headphones have the same peak, so it's not that. Sounds nothing like the Demo of the profile on YouTube. And I did try Pure Cab on and off. No help. That leaves me questioning the integrity of the commercial profiles. I will say Top Jimi's VH Brown Sound pack is spot on. So I'm not sure what happened with his JCM800.

I'm starting to see shortfalls with some of the commercial profiles. I like bass, but not flubby or muddy saturation...rather tight bottom...even if you have to get a clean bass level in post EQ. Limited speaker cab choices are another shortcoming, as the typical cabs used back when these amps were classics are often not used in the profiling. And doing all the samples in D# tuning (or some type of Drop Dead tuning) is not always creating the "typical" tone these amps are famous for. The Amp Factory Demo of a JCM 800 might be a great recording with excellent musicianship, but again nothing like the tone I knew so well back in the late 80's. Judas Priest, man! The hunt for that tone continues. I can't believe no one has profiled it by now.

I'm feeling the same. There is just so much to do and discover. I'm not even sure how to organize yet because I know I will be discovering new tones and changing things all the time. There are still about a half dozen profiles I'm planning on downloading. I'm sure that list will grow exponentially. When does this end?

Still, I'd rather have too many great options than not enough.

Quote from chrismilne

I dont see why anyone cares if you post the profile and the changes (written or video) of what you did. I've seen many videos of these types of things even with paid profiles.

I get that same feeling. I reached out and didn't get a reply. This is a FREE offering anyway, and not a pay for profile. I'm not claiming authorship credit. I only changed one letter in the name so I can recall the correct tweaked version.

// REMOVED BY ADMIN //

It's not a heavily "colored" tone with a lot of speaker filtration. It's more open and "wide bandwidth" in nature, so compared to many that do have lots of speaker character, it might sound almost bland. But give it a chance before you start twisting knobs. Jam on it for a while...Try some different guitars and pickups. Dial back the guitars and see how it responds. But if you do change the Gain control, you might mess up the bottom end. The Gain and Bass are very intertwined on this profile.

About effects...Everything on is pretty cutting edge. Everything off is a bit plain, but I think pretty balanced. The slight Treble Boost in Stomp position C helps with definition, and Stereo Widener in Effects slot MOD really puts a sharp edge on it. The slight Comp effect in position B holds the low-mid tone range a bit. The Wah was my personal choice (modified Cry Baby). Use whatever you like.

Hope someone likes it as much as I do.

Cheers!

I found putting a noise gate after the rig is better than in front of the rig. The typical amp hiss can be better gated with a 4:1 or 2:1 gate without squashing clean guitar sustain. Mine are set to mute when the guitar is turned all the way down. Problem is that burns a slot in the effects chain. And the "X" position is where it has to go. I'd be happy if you could move the input noise gate to the post rig position without burning an effects slot.

I also end up using two stomp slots for wah and wammy, but then that leaves only two left. Some Comp or Treble Boost usually takes one. Then it could be a choice of Chorus or Pitch Effect like an Octaver...can't have both.

So in reality, from my must have effects, I can only choose one pre stomp and one post effect with what's left. If Wah was standard without burning a slot (like the volume pedal), and the Noise Gate was moved to post rig without burning a slot, we would get one more open position in each section. That would help!

Glad you got it working!

What about the suggestion on post number 14?

Quote from Awesome_Elvis

Maybe they's gonna release a mission kemper 4x12 cab. Yo dawg, lemme get one of them there 600 watt @8 ohms 4x12 neodymium speaker cabs with optional open back convertible option. Black please, with a salt and pepper neoprene grill cloth. K, thanx. Love you

Stereo amplified and non-amplified versions please!...with casters!

I like that idea. That would be my backline solution. Just plop my rack unit mounted in a nice fender head-like tolex wrapped 3RU box on top, plug it in...and rock!

But I could see a possible Kemper 2 being a dual processor "two simultaneous rig" unit that doesn't take away from the original Kemper. It's one louder, isn't it? For when you need that extra push over the cliff.

And a floor unit (made in Germany) without the profile section could be the entry level unit for the "budget conscious".

And I could also see a version with external switching/looping options.

None of these would take away from the core unit and investment in profiles.

Quote from Mindstate89

I've recently got my Kemper and playing around with some tones. Settled on one that I love, only problem is that when recording a few layers, I can hear a very distinct constant rumble. I find playing with EQ if I pull some of the bass ranges down it helps, but I have to pull out a lot of the sound I enjoy with the tone by pulling a lot of the low range out to avoid this noise. Anyone have any tips?

Use a high pass filter with a steeper slope. Or experiment with the slope to roll down the deep bass without messing with you fundamental guitar tone. You'll have to find the frequency point where you attenuate the deep rumble.

I think I saw that type of EQ in the Kemper, but it will take one of your Effect slots to use it.

Quote from unclemar

howdy,,

Hallo there!

That "might" be a good suggestion for a "possible" new Kemper model.

Don't get me wrong...I DON'T WANT A NEW VERSION OF THE KEMPER that isn't fully compatible with all original Kemper models...and works with all original profiles. BUT, added "loop" and "switcher" sections for multiple effects and points in the signal chain could offer the solution(s) many like yourself are looking for. After all, professional musicians who take this thing on the road must need an outboard switcher to do what you describe. Right now that's the only practical way.

One issue that could be a problem mixing external stomps and/or effects with internal stomps/effects would be the order of the stomp/effect. That matters! So maybe it's better to have Kemper capture and offer effects like that "Freakout" effect. They do a pretty good job of that, and the research and development can't be cheap. We get a lot for our money!

Quote from lespauled

Without breaking any rules, there is nothing wrong with describing what you changed in the profile from the original. Might even make a nice tutorial video on how to take an existing profile and make it "yours".

If the numbers shown were actually "close enough", I could...and would. But perceivable changes in tone were happening at less than 0.1, so it wouldn't be exactly the same. At first I questioned my sanity on that, but when the "E" popped up after making tweaks less than 0.1, and the number value stayed the same, I knew the unit responded to the change. Besides, it would take a lot of numbers to list them all here. It's just easier to post a file.

BTW - I sent email to the author. No answer yet, but he's a professional musician, so I'm sure he is busy.

Quote from 808illest

You've got the skillz for writng, no doubt. Visceral, detailed and enjoyable
I wish more rigs were like that, "dialed in"

Thanks!

Some probably don't like my long-winded rants. I understand. It's passion. And communicating that takes "wind".

I too wish more profiles were versatile enough to work with any guitar. I think the old adage "you have to change your tone controls when you switch guitars" is not true. At least, it doesn't have to be. The right amp with the right settings can sound great with any decent guitar. Since my early days I had learned to make my amp work with any guitar but a truly "bad" guitar (they exist). But then again I've made bad sounding guitars sound pretty good with proper pickup adjustments...unless the pickups are bad (muddy or exaggerated in some undesirable way). That's a showstopper. Once you have a great organic amp tone happening, then you can really hear the guitar resonance and evaluate pickup quality, then make the adjustments that bring out the best in a guitar's tone.

Peace!

Quote from skoczy

Welcome to the community @PHILBERT. Any connection to Paul Gilbert?

Hi skoczy,

Don't I wish! No such luck. Sure wish I had his chops!

Thanks for the welcome.

All good points.

It's easy to get "lost in Toneland". And at first you want to see what the thing sounds like, so you jump around looking for this and that. I had to stop that and learn how to set and save rigs, cabs, stomps, effects (both individual and entire groups), and be able to organize it all so I could build performances quickly and efficiently. Took some of the guitar playing time away, but made editing and rig building so much faster. Copy and Paste are great time savers, as is recalling my customized stomps and effects for installing them on new amp profiles. I have a good grip on it now, but already see the need to clean up my early experiments and get better organized. In the end it will be incredibly efficient and versatile.

I just got my second Mission Engineering expression pedal for the Remote (now have Volume/Wah and Wammy...love it!), and also my 4 custom length stereo cables with right-angle "pancake" connectors for a super tight floorboard package. Just over 26" wide when all is pushed close together. Nice! Now all I need is the perfect size ATA type case (with bottom rubber feet) for it all to sit in. Inside dimensions are something like 26 1/4" x 10". Pop the lid, plug in the one network cable...and play!

As far as "real amp sound", it all comes down to the skill and EARS of the profiler(s). If they dial in tone and breakup like you would, then capture the best sound from the speaker cabinet, you will have "real" good amp sound that will challenge any "real" amp. But then you can really make a good "amp capture" sound like magic with critical ear tuning of all the settings...and I mean listening to changes less than 0.1. That's when I say it's "better than real", as I couldn't get any of that with my real amps. Can I tell it's not real? No, I can't...not in front of my KRK V8's, but you have to start with a great sounding profile. I found several profilers on YouTube that I "hear" great tones from. I knew it instantly. Bought some packs for a few bucks. It was soooooo worth it. That is when I get "lost in tone", but truly pleasurable tone. It's hard to stop playing these excellent "full-tone" amp profiles!

Enjoy!

Quote from 808illest

Well, another great read Phil. Musta been a salesman somewhere along the line LoL.

All kidding aside, in reality, I'd doubt commercial profilers want modded versions of their work floating around, but you never know?

I'd be very interested in trying this profile or maybe they will, and be pleasantly surprised!

Good luck, and good question.

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Thanks 808illest. Actually never did sales. I'm just super stoked at the outcome. I was trying to show the process and results in words (albeit too many words), but without the excellent full-range profile captured by THE AUTHOR, I would have NOTHING to build on. So I change no name (if you can even do that...doubt it) other than the title so I can tell which one it is.

I'll send it off and see what he thinks. And @Karajan...The coolest thing about this full range balance is I would bet no additional knob turning would be needed by anyone other than (maybe) Distortion Sense. I can plug anything into this "thing" and it sounds fantastic. That's how my Hughes and Kettner was dialed in, and I like that kind of versatility.

Thanks guys!

Quote from waraba

sounds interesting !

You should contact the original owner and ask him , because you should not upload a profile you did not make

There is a tolerance here , some users including myself did it in the past when we could find something really interesting and different from the original profile.

Good insight. I'm learning what is allowed and what is not. Good neighbor / citizen thing and all...

Thanks!

Quote from benvigil

First, this post could have been, like... 3 sentences. But I get the excitement.

Just ask the original author. They might let you post it, and it can't hurt to ask.

Yes...I know. I guess I was making a point about what is possible with enough attention to detail. Amazing possibilities. My fingers hurt! Not from typing or tweaking knobs, but playing.

That's a good idea. I'll contact him first.

Thanks,

That's putting it to good use! Now you have something that is actually worth something.

I'm finding my "dream amps" every day. I have to keep pinching myself to make sure this isn't just a dream.

Welcome and ENJOY!

Hi Guys and Gals,

I've been searching for a list of basic amp profiles in Rig Manager to satisfy my mainstay rig collection and came across a "workable" JCM 800 profile that sounded like it had enough fullness in spectrum to possibly mold into something I was trying to find. To be honest, it was somewhat lackluster and didn't sound like what we all knew as the JCM 800 back in the day. Too much low end saturation (almost flubby) and not enough "crunch" to get that full and tight "cutting" 80's sound. So I made some quick gain and tone adjustments and got some of the tone where I wanted it, but by no means was this what I was searching for. Just couldn't get a clean bottom end, tight crunch and balanced high-end. Put it to rest for the night.

With fresh ears I came back to it yesterday and decided to "try" to refine it as much as I could although, had serious doubts it would be salvageable. And I really didn't want to resort to "stomps" or "effects" to get the amp to sound tight and crunchy, so I focused on the amp settings first to see if it was even possible. I kept balancing saturation and bass until it was as good as it could be (not great) and refined the mids and highs making sure I tamed the presence without losing fidelity. And that mid section had to be musical without that "boxy sounding" 500 Hz "fake" modeler midrange sound. Then I went deep...real deep...and it started to come together in ways I never thought possible. Nothing drastically changed in the deep settings, but it all started to line up and come into harmony. One more reality check...Drop tune and see if it sounded like a "Recto" (I know my inner likings). NO RECTO VIBE. It's definitely Marshall all the way.

Well, I have to tell you, after brief breaks and minor refinements I finally hit gold and found "the dream amp" with all the tight crunchy definition AND balanced fullness you could ever hope for. I actually doubted this was "true". Could I have been locked in my own tone world? That happens. So I kept walking away and coming back fresh. Nope...it's "there". And would anything I "tweaked" now make it any better? NO, that's the balance right there. Later I did add a couple of stomps, but they didn't change the core tone, and just added a little more edge (minor treble boost). Did a quick A/B with the original patch. OMG! What a transformation! But here is where the rubber meets the road...Would it work on ALL of my guitars? And would it "dial back" to clean and the point of breakup...and still sound good? Holy crap! It works on EVERYTHING, and still sounds balanced and detailed. I thought the Tele would be ear piercing, but it was fantastic! P90's incredible. High gain Flying V ceramic hummies mega crunch, yet still full. You can't "oversaturate" this thing! It just gets crunchier. NO HIGH END FIZZ, and NO BUZZIENESS. Completely tight and balanced from clean to full saturation without any frequency loss or dynamic collapse. And it sounds and feels "real". Even my ESP on mid and neck single-coils did incredibly full and convincing breakup, full-tone and detailed, Jimi Hendrix and SRV tones. The real JCM-800 would not have cleaned up with that kind of dynamic definition and detail when set for high gain. And what about "Pure Cab"? (had fears it would fall apart and die) Honestly, I like it without Pure Cab slightly better (more in your face), but I also think the factory default Pure Cab set at 3.0 sounds great too. A bit darker and slightly more distant, but would be great for double-tracking as an alternate tone (a common practice). Both sound really great.

I guess I got carried away painting this picture, but it really transformed into magic. I'm amazed that it came so far into perfect dynamic range and detailed full-range tone focus. All 10 of my guitars (didn't try my bass) sound incredible with any pickup setting or type. And it sits just perfect in real studio mixes. Not overly bass heavy, and could easily be wide-band EQ tweaked into any mix.You would't think it possible, but it's really "there" now. My real tube amp is obsolete!

I would love to share this. Only one problem! I'm not the original author. The profile was offered as a "free to download pack" from Kemper, but originating from a well known commercial profiler. Can I still share this modified profile? I'm not trying to claim credit, as this "dream come true" amp profile would not have been possible without the excellent tone captured by the original author. I see so many people searching for this type of tone. So is it possible to share this?