Posts by Nemo13

    It would help to include speakers used, etc., so as not to have to go to each ones website or whatever to find out the stats if available. Comparing box construction, size, depth, baffling if any, etc. also, to take into account making one yourself instead of spending so much.

    I loved the lecture on the ethicality/legality of the Kemper from someone who buys amps to return them. Priceless!

    Um nightlight? That was a joke. DUH-OH! I am not buying amps for profiles. Good call rube, haha... ;) Although I did see others on another forum speak of it happening.

    Yes, I remember that movie... The whole thing is this, tech moves fast, laws move slow. That is because people are in whirl and not sure what to make of future events. I personally think it is the end of amps almost completely, which is like the end of pro musicians because the internet killed their jobs. Who knows, I just see a lot of grumbling everywhere, once it bites deep, then we will see what happens. Until then, the return policy is awesome on amps!

    Hey that is an interesting opinion (not) and glosses over a lot, but what would one expect from the manufacturers forum? Haha... These type of topics get dull because of the blah that ensues.


    Anyway, I can't go on right now, I am buying a few boutique amps and cabs that I can profile then send back within 30 days! Woohoo! :)

    Recreation of a sound is not covered under copyright law anymore than making a square shape object. The Kemper is profiling the sound of the amp, not stealing the circuitry to make the sound. A sample is also not illegal, but using the sample to reproduce something that's copyrighted is.


    Trust me, if the amp companies had a case against Kemper, it would have been filed at the time the device was first released. Nothing illegal here.

    OMG, really dude? hahaha... I will just leave you in your private little world. Also, as far as legal, laws change all the time. You do know how/why that happnes, right? Some of you guys are really like an argument circle, around and around and around, and you end up right where it began. No thanks! Your comprehension level is too low, I leave you to yourselves. ;)

    You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Not talking about sheet music. A 'profile' and 'sample' can be / are the same thing. The tonal inflection of an amp or voice is characteristic in one basic sustained note or many. It is not the playing of one or many notes, it is the ~~~~> Characteristic of the tone TOO the note/notes that defines it to an amp or voice. In other words, whatever comes out of the vocal chords or an amp, be it a grunt or a fart or a singing sustained tone/note will have its unique character to it alone. This is in fact what boutique amps SELL YOU ON. ;) If they just simply built custom amps to 'raise the volume' you could have any amp. They sell you on the character and voicing of the amp. If you 'profile' (i.e. copy/take) a snapshot of that character/voicing, you are basically stealing what the amp was created to produce. You have samples for sale everywhere by women selling ooohs and ahhhs and whatever, so I guess they should give them away for free? Since they are not singing anything? They are not selling a song with sheet music. They are selling their defined unique voice TONE. That is why you have more than one. This is so easy..


    Like I said, you can argue all you want, but a good lawyer could really make a case here. Not that I care, I love all the free amps. The Axe FX differs in that it is recreated all the parts of the amp to create unique guitar sounds ( I believe ) the Kemper is more like a synth in a way. Amp makers don't seem to give a shit, so this convo doesn't go anywhere anyway so it is all moot, just interesting.

    What are the ohms of each cab? If you put them together that will be diff to, you just want to make sure it matches to the kemper.

    Evo, all you are doing is complicating the simplicity of the debate. All vocal cords are unique. Amps are unique. It is the end result which we hear. The end result is what is being captured and copied, or profiled.


    The rest, is debate for lawyers, haha...


    All a play of words, Imcould say steal, borrow, sample, profile, whichever sounds good. Just like undocumented immigrant sounds more legal and nicer than illegal alien. ;)


    I'm glad it is ok currently, I do enjoy all my fav amps

    michael-dk, I could make the argument vocal cords do not make any sound without lungs. An amp circuit and speakers are designed specifically to make a signature sound, especially boutique amps.

    You both are right and wrong. Profiling, or sampling, or anything coping is stealing. You didn't originate it. You are mimicking it, or any other way you want to try to justify it, it is the same. Legal terms can change at any time, again, it depends on who makes a big stink about it. The Kemper differs from something like a Axe Fx in that the ax is duplicating individual real world things, so not 'lifting' a sample of an original. I'm sure it would be a helluva battle in court if it ever got there.

    Not really comparable, in my opinion. There aren't 10000 different Robert Plants in circulation that you can ask to sing a song a certain way, but there certainly are 10000 different Marshalls that you can dial in to sound a certain way on a track, or nigh on identical to someone else's track, if you wish. There are also thousands of amps by manufacturers other than Marshall that can sound just like a Marshall, yet there aren't any other singers that sound just like Robert Plant.

    Very comparable. When you are saying that a physical object like an amp that creates a unique sound or characteristic does not own it, then you have to mean all. That means I can record Robert Plant, use his voice on a keyboard, make music and sell it. It's just a profile. Just like I could take a certain year Marshall, profile it, and sell it as MadShell. They both create a unique sound, but they don't own it. Maybe. They law treds lightly on many things until it becomes a huge issue to many. ;) Or hell, let's just profile guitarists. You can steal their style of playing, use parts of the profile for your music. I mean, all sound is just waves, what the hell, you can't claim that. You didn't build that. Haha... Man, you could go on forever. The truth is, there are dreamers and builders and there are leeches. The end.


    Let me expound by saying this: The Kemper is like a real world pirate site. Pirates can't afford software that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars, so since the early 90's, lifted the progs they wanted, even though they were edited or adjusted or maybe not work as good. But it was the same software and such. Kemper basically grabs Robert Plants souls and puts them in a magic box so you can sound like Robert Plant or anyone else. They didn't create the 'tones' they just 'profile' them to use.


    What's the diff?


    I see amp makers as in the dark. The law is not there, because no one is really complaining. I see amp makers and singers and whatever as big old IBM when they were dealing with Bill Gates. You see, IBM thought the computer was the hardware, not the software. They didn't see its value. But Bill Gates did. Perhaps amp companies need to be Bill Gates. License their unique tome generated by their machines the same as a singer's vocal chords create their unique call in the wild to companies who wish to use their 'profile'. :)


    I am happy to have all my favorite boutique amps! And like a young kid who couldn't afford to buy bands albums, I happily bought cassette tapes to record them off the radio. I don't feel I owe them, especially now, since its all just waves and such, not physically real. ;)

    "Amps are a physical object. The tone of the amp isn't copyrighted. If it was, you'd have to pay royalties to Fender to release an album that was recorded with a Bassman. Every "Marshall in a box" distortion out there would owe royalties to marshall even though their schematics had nothing to do with anything Jim ever made."


    Sooo.... A singer is a physical object. If I record their voices, setup some software to use their imprints of singing and sell it for some keyboard package, I'm ok? It's just oo's, aaaahh's, and blahs, right? ;)


    As far as theft, really guys? Since the dawn of the interent, the woes of digital / software makers and designers have been large. First pirated software and games, then various digital art, then as we all know, music took a huge hit, and streaming sucked the rest of the blood out of artists.


    There is no way to combat it unless there is more internet regulation, unfortunately, that is a dangerous slippery slope opened to all kinds of evils. If you do anything, it has to be iron clad and air tight as to know way to pervert the law into something else. Which is laughable since you have it in the hands of politicians. Never let a crises go to waste, examine it, see what you can get out of it, then alter it.


    Like most things in the market world, you create something, sell it as fast and as long as you can till someone steals your idea and puts a spin on it. Yeah, it happens everywhere.


    Look at guitars, how many builders blatantly rip off Fender or Gibson? Just changing the peghead a little and calling it their own? Laughable. Or the Marshall amp or Fender? How many made a few little adjustments?


    So stealing outright, or somewhat, it is always there. Either they rip you off bold like pirating, or they rip you off 'kinda' by keeping barely withing the law (or still just rip you off totally and just have lost of money for lawyers to wait you out or pay you off pennies on the dollar)


    For profiles, just be glad you can make any money on it. Eventually something new will come along and it will be like a cassette tape business...

    I believe that unless you are playing stadiums or other very large venues, having a loud cab on stage detracts from the sound of the band by blaring the stage (and thus every mic on stage) with guitar sound which gets re-amped through the mics and PA with reverb to sound like crap.


    Yes, many guitar players simply can't get "that feeling" without a 4x12 cab pounding away at them on stage, but such volume on stage in many venues is simply not a great idea.


    Guitar cabs are also notoriously directional. One side of the audience hears one thing, the other, something completely different.

    You are correct that for 'overall stage sound mix' it makes no sense for a big cab since it throws one way...



    ... But they look damn impressive. :)


    A bunch of massive speaker cabs is kinda part of the backdrop for many. Fake cabs have been used for years and years. You can't 'get real' with the audience too much, a little kemper on a end table does not display arse-kicking, haha...

    Rockman was ahead of its time with 3 way full range speakers, the rockman stuff was full range. I think I am gonna build one of these, I like the three way design. Cheaper to do things yourself, cabs are easy.


    Still using regular cabs is part of the psychological change as still using tube power amps, it is hard to let go, haha...


    The Kemper to me gives it's full use with the FRFR setup. It only makes sense to evolve to that because once you dial your full setup internally, it can just go direct to any source, as opposed to using the old fashioned speakers you can't do that. Why make life harder? It is easier to adapt than to stay put. Rely on your talent and skill more than your gear.