Posts by andyg_prs

I also spotted that you need to install the software for the 6i6....as I've used other lower models, I assumed it was for added extras....but for instance it is also needed to instruct the software whether to treat an input as line or instrument....pretty crucial!!

https://d2zjg0qo565n2.cloudfro…i6-2nd-gen-user-guide.pdf

Thanks - well I will ask the other guitarist to but I think he has gone out for the night

I have some Git Analog and Git Studio tracks I recorded. I want to reamp them. Ultimately I'll try with my Kemper but having just had back surgery the other guitarist in my band is leading the charge using his Fractal AX8.

I bought a Focusrite 6i6 to give me multiple output options, but am currently keeping things simple using the 1/4" sockets as I've read so much about confusion in setting up SPDIF initially......and the AX8 doesn't have an SPDIF in.

What we have tried currently is as follows:

• Track 1 is the raw guitar. Track 2 is the track we want to write the re-amped audio to.
• Speakers are connected to outputs 1 and 2 on the interface.
• 6i6 output 3 goes from the Focusrite to the AX8.
• The output from the AX8 goes into the first input on the Focusrite.
• We've set track 1 to output to track 2. We've tried both with and without the master/parent send checked in the routing control on track 1.
• The routing for track 1 is set to Hardware output 3.

The issue is that we are creating a feedback loop somewhere as we just get constant feedback whistle no matter what levels we send from Track 1 or what level we output from the AX8.

We've tried all different recording modes within Reaper and can't find anything online that helps.

It must be something simple to do with the setting on one or both the tracks....very frustrating and I feel very stupid.

I'm hoping someone with Reaper experience...and even better someone that has the 6i6 might be able to explain how this should be set up to work.....I'm giving myself a headache on top of the pain in my back!

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Andy

This is the tutorial and the timestamp showing what I based my recording on.

In fact two time stamps

Optimal levels

Acoustic guitar example

Electric Guitar example

Thanks Monkey Man / well everyone. Well, I slightly missed the point. Originally I recorded with the 2i2 and that only has jack outputs.

At my friend's we used his interface that only had jack outputs and then went to get this 2i4 so that we could monitor the sounds together at the same time as feeding a track out for re-amping using an RCA to jack adaptor cable.

After the exchanges yesterday I went along with an extra RCA to jack adaptor cable so that we could feed those into the speakers and use the jack outputs to see if the signal sent for re-amping was at a much higher level then previously using the RAC outs.

I'd missed the fact that you wanted me to try recording my guitar out through the RCA outs to see if the signal was much lower.

However, it still seems a reasonable comparison, how the raw guitar track level would vary coming from jack as opposed to RCA outs into the re-amp device.

In either case, all experiments were pretty disastrous. The DAW seems to want to default to stereo output (which is balanced outputs 1 and 2). Changing the master output to channels 3 and 4 (to avoid the master track and the re-amped guitar coming out of 1 and 2 which we wanted to use for re-amping) just seemed to lead to feedback at any level of reamping (in this case we were using the AX8). That was just monitoring through the headphones and not even having anything plugged into the RCA (3 and 4 outputs).

Trying to put the speakers through 3 and 4 just didn't work. The RCA outputs just wouldn't play nicely with the speakers/DAW. Not sure if it is because they are unbalanced outputs compared to the balanced 1 and 2 outputs. Or if the fact that the only cables we had were RCA to small stereo jack, then a small stereo to 1/4" adaptor. We got better results removing one of the RCA plugs, which makes sense with the mono thing.

Regardless we couldn't re-amps via the jack (1 and 2) outputs at any level....we just got screeching. And we checked and double checked all the settings!

I could do a better test at home with Reaper which I know a little better than Logic.

Anyhow, going back to the original set up with the speakers in the jack outputs and the RCA cables feeding into a mono jack into either the AX8 or Kemper we got better results....whether through the front or back of the Kemper.

I apologise for the red herring but I think the issue was the reduced level audio that the keyboard player had supplied us with for the tests that led to my first post. He had used guitar rig, then faded my level down, and when he exported the audio, it was at the faded down level. He re-shared with us the original kemper raw audio I supplied (I think it was Git Studio but I could be wrong) and it played much nicer with re-amping.

The future:

When I record, I use the 2i2 so jack outputs. I will read and re-read the advice on levels and experiment with re-amping audio after each section I record when I next go to record. I had spent many hours going through the official Reaper recording guides and it is a little frustrating to see that the advice might be duff. Of course I'd need to find and share the video to check I haven't just misunderstood.

I'm sure the issues with my experiments; re-amping with RCA out are just an outlier...cable incompatibility or something incorrect in Logic. But as I use the 2i2 with no RCA outs, and Reaper, it's probably an experiment I can leave for now.

The next time I buy an interface, I may look for one with SPDIF!

I'll probably update this post with the video and timestamp of the instructional I used from Reaper.

I understand why the AX8/Kemper etc don't have an audio interface incorporated, but it would be lovely, even if it didn't provide all the options a dedicated interface does. For example the Laney IRT studio I believe allows you to output both unprocessed and "through the amplifier" tracks by virtue of a single cable...so simple!

To finish, I really do appreciate the help, and there is ongoing self education here, I can't pretend I have absorbed everything that has been said or every link that has been embedded. But I am working through them, and validating how they work for me. I am listening and respectful of your knowledge.

Thanks again,
Andy

My friend is even less technical than me, but a great guitarist and a good ear...he is about to test the way I've described....well he'll have to do it using monitoring with headphones as his speakers don't have phono connectors....but if the test works, I've got some Amazon prime mono jack to phono plug cables in my basket ready to go.

This part if going to be long, I apologise.

Reading those other posts, I'm still not quite there... I originally (and normally) will record using a Focusrite 2i2. It has a halo indicator (I always keep that green)

The specs are here:

2i2 specs

For this piece of work we have borrowed a Focusrite 2i4. It also has halo indicators but different specs here:

2i4 specs

The reason for me inserting the specs is not me being lazy but avoiding missing something. I think I need to look at the instrument input gain ranges. Now on the 2i2 for instrument it is -4dB to +46dB. For 2i4 for instrument it is +10dB to +55dB.

I generally have to turn up the input somewhere between nine o clock and midday (from memory) for the halo to light up at all (it goes green to yellow to red).

For my Kemper, I generally record to two tracks simultaneously, one with the Rig I want (so I can hear myself playing with drive, pulling out harmonics etc) and another "raw". That is using the Git Studio output which is supposed to avoid the need for a DI box on reamp. But should I be using Git Analog?

Now doing that, and adjusting the level on the Raw track in Reaper to where it is always in the green with the occasional foray into yellow I get a wave shape in Reaper that is very small....eg the peaks and troughs are tiny compared to the Kemper processed track which is your classic large wave form.

So that's what I do currently. As for what I should do:

For the 2i2 and the 2i4, how do I set the input. Just above minimum on the 2i2 might be 0dB and on the 2i4 I have no choice but to go to +10dB. On Reaper itself, what dB setting should I put for the track?

I'm concerned about being able to raise the level of the monitoring enough to hear my unprocessed guitar at all.

And also having enough output level to work with.

I'm sure I'm saying something stupid and of course it would be much better if I were in front of my recording set up whilst typing, but not possible right now.

On the upside, for amateurs such as myself, Focusrite is a very commonly used interface as is Reaper as the DAW. So hopefully this could lead to an "Idiot's Guide" to recording and reamping

Thanks again,
Andy

Thanks Monkey Man. I've certainly taken everything you've said seriously. All my gear is in the other guitarist's studio, but I'm going to explain to him now.

My post had a typo that I didn't see, apologies, I was very tired and stressed. It should have said ""First - when I try to record the output of my Kemper the same high gain rig seems to render in a less powerful / impactful way than that rig works live."

I'm going to read up on your links to posts now.

Thanks again,
Andy

Quote from wwittman

Proper gain staging isn’t “guesswork” and taking the signal in digitally doesn’t guarantee that it’s at an appropriate level.

When people say ‘it sounds smaller when I try to record it’ my FIRST suspicion is their monitoring, not the recording chain.

Very interesting. They weren't my studio monitors but I was going on the assumption that if my guitars sounded weak in the mix, that they would also sound weak when mastered. What would you do as a next stage?

Finally, for anyone, surely there is a simple way to record the raw guitar from the Kemper such that it is at the optimum level (and sound to noise ratio) for having gain etc added afterwards....whether reamping through the Kemper, a modeller, or even using plug ins.

What is that?

Thanks,
Andy

Thanks Monkey Man.

A couple of things quickly.

1. I'm not sure I understand your response to me liking my sound live from the Kemper to DXR10 or PA but not when recorded. My question is why it sounds weak when recorded....it sounds weak hearing the results back through the studio montiors...which is how you judge how the guitar is sitting in the mix?

2. Where is your post about setting the input level correctly on the Kemper? I had assumed that if I plugged my guitar straight into the Kemper than it would automatically be the correct level?

3. The Focusrite spec is this:

3-4 being the phono out. They are 3dB down. For practical reasons I did that as this was the first attempt me and my friend tried. His speakers only accept mono jacks, and we didn't have a pair of phone to mono jack cables.

I would have thought we could compensate for a 3dB difference?

I think points 1 and 2 are the key things for me - always good to learn!

Thanks,
Andy

Thinking about this more clearly having had my breakfast.....

A lot of the input audio was at a lower level than expected as the keyboard player had been using what I originally supplied and when he exported it back to me turned out to be at a much lower level than I originally recorded.

So, that is partly the issue.

Also, guitar rig (plug ins) that he had been using and the AX8 both dealt with the lower signal level stuff than the Kemper....but perhaps as the Kemper is more like a real amp that makes sense.

I did find a couple of pieces of my original Kemper raw guitar (on iCloud stored by Reaper in a thousand file fragments!) and that level was better.

The fundamental issue might be my first point though. I have a main high gain sound that I use live.....but recorded it sounds weak and thin....it's fat and massive live. I know that the sound comes out of my non-powered Kemper and goes through a powerful PA and out of huge speakers for the end result. So, my question is, what would I expect to do to that same rig output from my Kemper into a DAW in order to emulate what I have live?

If I'm not happy with my live rig into a DAW, I'm not going to happy re-amping the raw guitar through the Kemper either I expect.

Does that make sense?

Thanks,
Andy

Hi,

I've woken up to a big discussion!

There are a couple of different things here. First - when I try to record the output of my Kemper the same high gain rig seems to render in a first last powerful / impactful way than that rig works live. Is that a typical thing? Eg I play loud live....so do I need a tonne more gain to mimic that at recording levels.

Second, when re-amping, I'm struggling to get enough signal into the Kemper. When I recorded originally I used a 2i2, I used the halo feature on the input and the peak control on Reaper to get the maximum acceptable signal into Reaper without spiking. This was done last August for our album but there have been delays!

I recorded a "Kemperised" track with gain sounds and a "DI out" track that was intended to represent the raw guitar. It sounded fine.

Exactly what output should I have used for the raw guitar to be used subsequently for re-amping and how would I know the output levels were appropriate?

When I tried re-amping, I tried putting that signal from the DAW (this time at my friend's house and he was using Logic) through both the front of the Kemper and through the alternative input. The alternative input sounded very weedy regardless of using various settings and playing with the clean sense, distortion sense and reamp sense.

I had better (but not fantastic) results through the front input of the Kemper but again using the clean sense, distortion sense or reamp sense didn't help as much as would have liked. At one point the reamp sense didn't seem to be operational, was greyed out with a padlock symbol, but I can't remember exactly how I got around it....the set up is all still at my friend's house.

I was using a Focusrite 2i4 - sorry about that mistake. The standard jack (TS?) outputs 1 and 2 were used for the monitoring speakers. The phono outputs 3 and 4 went to a small stereo jack with a converter to quarter inch that went into the Kemper.

The output (main output) of that went into the input of the Focusrite set at "line". I assume that is correct as instrument level is for a non-amplified instrument, but here we had been through the Kemper?

As I say this all yielded much better results with the AX8.

Sorry if I am unclear of have missed something...but please let me know so that I can provide the information needed to get this right.

Thanks,
Andy

Hi,

I've just been experimenting with recording and re-amping with the Kemper.

One strange thing is that the high gain sounds that I use live with my band, that sound massive, either through my DXR10 or straight to PA do not sound nearly as high gain or fat into the DAW.

I have the interface (Focusrite 2i6) set correctly, levels etc, so was a bit surprised.

When it came to re-amping, I found the (previously recorded) guitar level a bit low, however even taking the Distortion sense to its maximum it didn't really bring the drive levels up to what I was expecting.

I was doing these experiments at the other guitarist's house, and he uses an AX8. Now the sounds that he uses live, yielded exactly the same results through the DAW.

Any ideas? I didn't really want to have to use his AX8 for recording!!

Thanks,
Andy

I should take a picture, but not currently by my Kemper.

I have the remote and for one of the effects slots, Switch "II" I have Pure Boost selected. So top left is red in colour for the effect. Turning it on and off makes the bottom left led go from off to white....as expected. But the bottom right led is permanently white.

I think it's to do with another effect that it can be programmed for it to control, but I can't work out what it's related to.

How do I find out?

I am currently reading the manual!

Thanks
Andy

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

I’d love to know which profile he is using in that first video… That is one nice clean tone!

Yeah, I was thinking just that....you'd expect a Strat for that kind of tone...I wonder whether there is a some forum to contact him...he seems like a down to earth guy...

I love Rob Harris and Jamiroquai....and then I see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jFVkK_7DAY

and an older one with more of his playing along with Jeff (RIP x) at World Guitars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2GTfLAqhz4

Not mine...but if the guy comments on his FB post I'll advise. Has reminded me to take another back up of my Kemper when I'm in the studio tonight though!

Thanks both....the guy has got those from another source now (FB group) and is now wondering if a PCB is loose. But much obliged for the help

Hi,

Does anyone have anything below v5 software...I'm trying to help someone out who has had issues booting up since upgrading to v5....he's tried the various boot options to get around this and doesn't have any backups.

Cheers,
Andy

He's fine in a normal venue.....just small ones with low ceiling seem to exacerbate the issue....my concern with IEMs is trusting the mix in them