We spent years asking for new delays...and now we have one...
Funny 
Now .... to be serious, we did get delays that are really good. We asked for an improved reverb engine .... and have a really great reverb engine that rivals even the most expensive pedals out there. We also asked for them to fix the horribly inefficient scrolling through things in the menu system .... and now it is really nice.
The editor will come as well.
Just a note, selling product at a profit is the main goal. By making the Kemper accessible for integration with other systems and software, more profitable sales can be made.
Hi team Kemper.
While I am sure that the new editor will be very nice, it would also be nice for the MIDI implementation in the KPA to be modified to allow MIDI manipulation of the preset management.
This would be really nice for those with external MIDI controllers and allow a host of neat work-flows to be automated via MIDI.
Thanks for listening!
When It comes to raw guitar amp tone the Kemper is the gold standard. I have tried the fractal/Headrush units and the Helix. I think that the Helix is the worst for amp tones but has some great effects and IO options. The Fractal units are good but I feel like the only area that they beat the Kemper is in the FX department and not the amp tone. I feel like the Fractal and the Kemper are the top dogs and the Helix and Headrush are a lower tier sound wise. I did really like the Headrush floorboard a lot better than the Helix. For the right price the Headrush is a great backup for a Kemper or Fractal.
Having spent around 6 hours doing an A/B shoot-out between my KPA and the AxeFX III, I would agree with your assessment.
I would also add that when it comes to listening to a song, then picking out the guitar tone you would like for that song, then using the digital amp to get that sound, the KPA is way faster than the Axe FX. It is just stupid simple to get where you want to go quickly with a KPA.
As repetitive as it is, I would like to say it one more time.
There is an excellent editor for the KPA in Toast ME. I simply don't understand why anyone would sell their incredible sounding KPA because the OEM editor hasn't been released yet. It just makes no sense to me at all.
I do have some sympathy for those who purchased the floor unit recently thinking that the OEM editor would be just days away; however, having said that, just download Toast ME in the meanwhile. Isn't that a reasonable solution for remote operation in the interim?
Oh well. I guess you can please most of the people some of the time eh?
My Yamaha's DXR10mkii arrived yesterday. At first I though they where too dark sounding until I really cranked them. They sound flatter and much louder than the EV 12 zlx-p. The EV sounded so overhyped on the high and low end that I had to lower the tone controls in the back. I had to redo my profiles because they where too dark for the DXR10mkii but once I got used to them they sound more natural than the EV's. I don't know how the new DXR10mkii compares to the older ones as far as sound, but I know the high frequecy driver has a neodymium magnet and they're louder than the old ones by 1 or 2 dB.
The real test will be at rehearsal because I couldn't hear the EV's and when I crank them the sounds starts to deteriorate , that's why I purchased the Yamaha's. If anyone is interested to hear how they sound loud, I can report back.
Yea, I am not surprised.
The DXR's are in an entirely different league than the EV's.
Just a thought, you might want to consider using your main eq out or monitor eq out to shape the sound of your profiles to specific speaker setups instead of tweaking each individual profile to a specific speaker. Also, when making any change in over-all EQ I always like to A/B it back and fourth to where I was before since we all tend to like what is different .... but then when you play it in context with the band, it doesn't always mix as well as what you already had.
I think you will find those DXR's make a world of difference. Good luck and I look forward to hearing back from your first practice!
OneEng1, off topic, but that line of reasoning is pretty cherry picked for a number of reasons.
Your summary failed to account for frequency of updates and number of updated features. Compared to some other competing devices (and it aint just 2...), the frequency of Kemper updates isn't blowing anyone away. In fact, it lags behind many others. We can of course argue the "quality" of those other updates, but it's beside the point here if I'm to strictly interpret your reasoning.
It doesn't invalidate the fact that when new hardware comes out, old hardware loses value.
Further, if there are more than 2 (Fractal Axe, Line 6 Helix) that play competitively, I would like to know what they are?
Old versions of hardware still work, and the only "value" that matters is to that of the player. If you still use hardware that is no longer supported with firmware updates, it works no less for you than it did before. If we were to take the common sentiment expressed on the forum that people don't need new features because they bought the Kemper "as-is", I don't see why that's suddenly an exception.
So... what you are saying is that it would be OK if Fractal was still selling their Axe from 8 years ago? I am not sure that any amount of firmware upgrades would put it on-par with the Kemper of today .... but then again, we will never know since they quit doing anything on that old Axe (of any significance) quite some time ago ... don't you think?
The original Axe-Fx II is still being updated, actually. Despite the unit being discontinued last year, Fractal Audio released a new update for it on the 18th.
Hmmm. From their website:
QuoteZip Archive—Mar 28, 2019
This firmware is a partial port of the new “Ares” modeling used in the Axe-Fx III. Not all aspects were able to be ported but the amps should sound very similar.
So they added one new "model" that doesn't sound the same as it does in the new hardware?
If that is the case for "update" then the KPA is updated every time someone makes a new profile!
Sure you want to stick with this particular line of argument?
Many Axe-Fx II users never buy a newer Axe-Fx II model because all Axe-Fx II models are compatible.
No. They are not. Please read the note above again.
Okay, though I'd argue the Axe-Fx II is far more versatile and costs less than a new Kemper, while the Axe-Fx III retails for a bit less than what I paid for my Axe-Fx II (new) and is an even more flexible and feature rich unit than the II. There's really no comparison between the feature set of the III vs. the Kemper. The III is on a whole different level, and is a bargain at the asking price, in my opinion.
Having spent around 9 hours with all 3 (Kemper, Axe fx II and Axe fx III) doing A/B's all day long, all I can say is that the Kemper was able to obtain good tones faster and more accurately with a Fender HRD, Mesa Double rect, and JCM800. This was both with profiling, and just starting out with rig manager and some downloaded rigs as a starting point.
Sure, the Axe III editor is damn beautiful. Certainly the most comprehensive editor I could ever envision. Still, at the end of the day, the Kemper was the tone matching champ hands down.
I'll give the Axe III the nod for the most tweak-able guitar amp in history with no one else even running in the same galaxy in the market, but that didn't help it obtain the tones of the tube amps with ease. Sure, you will get there in time. You just need training and patience.
Keep in mind, that all 3 devices had good sounds. The KPA did mid gain decisively better IMO. The Axe effects were just amazing though.
FWIW, I think that you guys that are used to the Axe Fx III editor are going to be very disappointed with any editor Kemper comes out with. The Axe Fx III was architected with an editor on a PC in its DNA while Kemper was designed not to need one at all and be more "tube amp like" in its controls.
A lot of people aren't going to use a third party editor because 1) it's third party and 2) it's MIDI only 3) not officially supported. An official editor will certainly add value to the unit and thus incentivize future purchases, in my opinion.
A lot of people already use the third party editor. I certainly do. It is very likely that anyone who does lots of automation already has tons of MIDI experience and equipment. As always, it will of course be nice when the editor is integrated with rig manager and can work through a USB cable 
To be fair, in this industry it's the norm to release upgrades and upsells to existing hardware. It adds value to your existing product and also keeps your consumer base happy and engaged. They are the most likely to continue investing when you eventually have new hardware or complementing products. If a company has shown to give added value to a product you invested in, it's easier and less expensive to keep you as a customer rather than trying to procure new ones.
To be fair, that isn't what empirical evidence shows. While it is true that "other companies" (btw, there are really only 2 we are talking about that play in this range of the market competitively) do updates, they only do so for a relatively short amount of time. They then require their users to purchase a new unit for new features beyond the last update.
Lets take Fractal and their "Axe" product line:
Standard: 2006.
Ultra: 2008.
II: 2011.
II XL: 2014.
III: 2018
.... so an average of every 3 years you could count on your investment being devalued by the next generation hardware being released.
Considering the fact that the Fractal product is around 50% more expensive than the Kemper, and the support of the Kemper is looking like it will stretch 3 generations of the Fractal product, the Kemper offers a value nearly 5 times that of the Fractal product.... and that is just math.
Meanwhile, a used Kemper purchased 7 years ago for ~ 2K can be sold for $1400-1600 used today. Not bad for a 7 year old piece of gear eh?
How about a 7 year old Axe?. Hmmm. Let's see .... that would be the venerable AxeII (not XL). I would be shocked if they even go for half of their original price.... for that matter, I would be surprised if you could sell one for 1K.
I also don't buy into the line that Kemper is going to sell so many more KPA's because a company written editor comes out. There has been a full featured editor for the KPA for a couple of years now. I don't see the Kemper version of the editor doing much for sales .... IMHO of course.
Kemper Kone? Yep. That will definitely increase sales. Kemper Stage? Yep. Tons of sales.
To be honest, I can see Kemper staying with (and providing updates to) the current piece of hardware for the next 4 years or more. They just released the Stage form factor. Now all new updates will apply across 3 different hardware form factors. A few better stomps, and some tweaks here and there and it is easy to see the KPA in its existing form lasting for years to come. Sure.... a Kemper branded, full featured editor ..... with performance GUI editing will be a nice addition.
You might not have been here long enough to remember the delays, the reverbs and the multiple OS releases: the editor release will go almost unnoticed/unappreciated and a few hours later, the same users will just move on to the Kone/Kabinet thread whining about why the latter still aren't out yet.
Yes, very likely; however, the big difference being that Kemper will actually MAKE money when they release the Kone/Kabinet while the editor is simply work and time for Kemper...... now, really, there is an impetus for the editor ..... but it ISN'T our whining.
Since Kemper released the Stage unit, they suddenly do have a need for a good editor. As pointed out by many others, it simply is not ideal to bend over to adjust things on a stage unit. The editor suddenly becomes more of a "need" than a "want".
Yea, yea, yea ..... I know that for those who do lots of recording work and have everything else in their chain available through the keyboard and mouse, the editor is seen as a "need".
I have not felt this to be true myself simply because there IS in fact a VERY comprehensive editor available for the Kemper in the 3rd party "ToastME" software. I also feel that it is likely that the lions share of people who purchase a Kemper do so for live purposes .... further lowering the need for Kemper to have an editor.
All that said, a Kemper brand editor connected through USB will be a good thing.
Personally, I simply want a nice show setup tool so I can quickly arrange performance slots according to a given set list. I don't really need a full featured editor for that.
Thanks for the great info OneEng 1! I was wondering about the DSR & DZR they both look quite impressive. Too bad that the DSR only has a 12" & 15" I like that 10's because of their weight. I would like to keep the weight below 40lbs. I can also fit 2 DXR or DZR 10's with the Kemper Profiler in my 2019 Camaro ZL1 so I don't have to borrow my wife's SUV for gigs!Lol!
Hey, no problem.
I hear you on the weight! The whole reason I have a Kemper is that my VHT head, 4x12 slant top, and 2x12 fat bottom were killing me to move and setup.
I don't generally have a dedicated wedge for my guitar these days since my band uses IEM's.... and I don't play much lead where the feedback and air movement would be needed. My DSR's are usually on main duty.
When I gig or just mess around with friends in other bands that don't have IEM's, I bring a single DSR112 and use the monitor out to drive it. Still get lots of shocked faces from my old tube amp buddies when they hear it
Also the Yamaha DZR10 has a higher wattage an max SPL is 137dB, that's loud! But they cost $1,200 each. I don't know bout the Headrush models. They're only $319 so I wonder if the components are cheap for such a low price! It's max SPL is 131dB and the new DRX 10 mk 2 's max SPL is 132dB with less power. Perhaps I'll give the DRX10 mk 2 and the DZR10 a listen and see how they compare. I do use ear plugs or IEM with my band, but the other members(which don't use earplugs) keep complaining that they can't hear my guitar. Very annoying !Lol!Thanks Dmatthews.
I own a pair of DSR112's and have for quite some time. They are in a totally different class than the DXR. Not to say that the DXR is not a great speaker. The DXR is arguably the best speaker in its price range. For slightly more money, you can get a DSR112 (~$900).
Now, for the DZR.
As the DSR is to the DXR, the DZR is to the DSR .... although maybe to a slightly smaller extent.
The DSR is easily half again as loud as the DXR while maintaining perfect clarity. Pay no attention to the wattage and SPL specs. Anyone who owns a pair of DSR's and have also used DXR's will tell you that.
The DZR has some advantages over even the DSR:
1) It is even louder than a DSR .... although really, I can't imagine needing more output than the DSR. In fact, I would be a little worried if you were able to bring a DXR to clip at a gig since it is quite loud (louder than any stage monitor should be set to at max).
2) It has a more even response curve than either the DSR or DXR (note the DXR goes lower than the DSR, but I would argue that these are frequencies the guitar should not be making in a band anyway
3) The DZR and DXR both come in a 10" flavor (The DSR can only be had in 12 and 15).
All Yamaha speakers carry a 7 year warranty which is longer than any other speaker in this price range.
All of the above speakers will blow the doors clean off of a ZLX and sound way better doing it.
While I have heard good things about the Headrush, I consider it a value option. It certainly will not put out nearly the sound that the DXR/DSR/DZR will IMO.
The editor is absolutely useful to every single user.
ToastME already exists and is a fully functional editor. Honestly, while I have every respect for the good folks at Kemper, I seriously doubt the first release of their editor will have every bell and whistle that exists in ToastME after a year or more of revisions and user feedback. Sure, they will get there, but likely not on the first down.
Further, there are people that don't use an editor at all (most I suspect). Certainly I didn't use an editor with my tube amp rig
I too would likely enjoy an acoustic sim .... but again, I doubt "everyone" would. A friend of min that plays in a metal band comes to mind
Everyone here will surely enjoy the new editor.... but then most here are Kemper enthusiast. I certainly don't think we represent the average Kemper user.
Fractal's editor is the bees knees. I can get a great tone 10 times faster on a Kemper without an editor than someone using Fractal and their great editor
Still, the wait will be over soon. Hopefully everyone will chill out and jam after it is released.
The original Kemper's had some issues with the multi-color LED's which has been fixed for quite some time.
I am sure they will get their heads around any issues that pop up and fix them quickly. Still, anyone should be wary of being on the "bloody edge" of technology.
Display MoreThe vocal minority... I don't know...
I am calm and wait and wait, didn't complaint to much, and wait and wait and wait... be patient and wait....
But: Everyone I know in the real world wants an editor yesterday
Minority? No way! No way
I know people who bought the Kemper and believed the "Rig Manager thing" must be be some kind of editor. They just couldn't believe a device in 2019 has no editor. And it is hard to believe really!
No one I know is patient about it
And I have not talked about people, that didn't get a Profiler yet, because of an editor missing!
ToastME has been available for some time. Why is this not good enough for anyone to buy a Kemper even if they strongly need an editor?
An editor should have been there from the start.
Now more than 7 years for me working without an editor, ....... often a pain in the ass!
7 years ago, Kemper did not suggest in the slightest way that they would ever have an editor. In fact, at that time, they advocated that the KPA was supposed to be intuitive to use from the front GUI just like a real tube amp.
If the editor was such an integral part of your work flow, and was more important than any other features, then I think you purchased the wrong product.
I find it hard to believe that you have suffered so greatly over the last 7 years and didn't just sell your KPA. Used KPA's go for nearly the price of used units thanks to Kemper's long commitment to the platform and the strong demand for the product in the market (even used).
I am sure you can find someone who will take that horrible piece of gear off your hands. A sucker is born every day.
Still, I do believe that having a Kemper supported editor will likely raise sales somewhat. There are those with workflows which require an editor. Despite the excellent Toast ME editor, some people feel better with an OEM piece of supported software. I am looking forward to seeing how Kemper has laid it out.
I am glad that Kemper is releasing an editor. A world class piece of gear like the KPA is well worth having a software GUI to round out its feature list and compete with other devices in its class.
.... but seriously, for those that purchased a KPA knowing it didn't have an editor, and then complain about it not having one ... please. Really? Sell your KPA and buy a Helix or an Axe III Fx. You will be in GUI heaven.
I love how silly easy it is to get a good tone (many of them actually) from the KPA. I have friends with Axe III Fx and Axe II Fx and they even comment on how easily I can get a specific sound for a song so much faster than them.
Again .... the editor from Kemper is on its way. There is a wonderful 3rd party editor that has been repeatedly mentioned (I have given my donation for Toast ME and it is worth every penny).
I have this sick feeling that even when Kemper releases the new editor, we are going to hear nothing but complaints from people about how it works. Truly, no good deed goes unpunished.
Display MoreI think Kemper have been delivering what people wanted and more.
The stage is exactly what people asked for since the helix came out.
The editor is what many had been asking for for a long time.
The delays and reverbs are beyond what anyone would have dared to hope for... and they come for free...
The kemper speakers are great innovation...
The extended market base they will get with the stage means they will be able to continue to support Kempet owners with great updates for a few more years...
I love Kemper!
Had we bought an AxeFX we would have had to buy a new unit every couple of years...
Exactly!
Kemper has filled a market gap they had. Consider the competition they had with Helix and AX8 (I would include FM3 .... but no sense comparing something you can actually buy with a future product that is going to be available "sometime in the future".
Kemper has continually improved their product, and their product line. In my day job I am a product manager. All I can say about the "Stage" release is .... smart, smart, smart Kemper.
Now ... if you are listening CK, maybe a smaller, even less expensive model that uses bluetooth to a tablet as an editing interface that runs sub $1K ;). Actually, this is much more difficult than the "Stage" was since Kemper kept the interface pretty much untouched so commonizing the firmware was an easier task.
Still, a sub 1K Kemper offering would be a huge money maker
That is a thread for another day though.
Today, Kemper has really hit a home run. Clean out of the park IMO.
To be honest I don't understand the advantage of a big floorboard against the toaster/remote combination.Specially if we talk about small stages..a big floorboard(like the KPS or the ax8),2-3 expression pedals and a pedaltrain full with stomps..this is a huge rig.Just on the floor instead in a big rack next to you..
For small stages all I want is a small controller (like the remote) and a small,light head (like the toaster) which fits everywhere.Maybe a pedal (like an expressionpedal for morphing) and a wah too..
Only a remote sized "profile player" would be a real advantage over the toaster/remote combination when we talk about small gigs.
Sure. Me too; however, ......
The "Stage" isn't marketed to those of us with existing KPA's. It is marketed at the ~$1500.00 crowd. Our current rigs cha-ching in at around $2400.00. That is a much higher barrier to entry for alot of people.
The Stage is also easier to transport. The "Throw and go" crowd will love it to pieces.
I am with you though. I don't want all those cords around my feet. I want the minimal footprint foot controller as well (as you mention for small stages); however, if I were buying today, I would likely buy the "Stage" version. It is simply too much value to be ignored.
I suspect that Kemper will sell them 2:1 to 4:1 over the current KPA models.
Welcome!
Yea, it took me some time to zero in on tone bliss .... but once there, it is seriously the best sounding, easiest to use rig out there for live gigging. I seriously can't even imagine lugging around my old faithful VHT UL and 4x12 cab (not to mention the 2x12 fat bottom cab).
Some of my most ardent tube purist friends are now converts too
Through a PA, nothing touches it IMHO.
Wow. Nice addition to the lineup CK.
While it is possible that some sales of the traditional products will be lost, they will more than be made up by the sales of the "Stage" unit.
To those that are not understanding this, please consider this from a gigging musicians point of view for a minute.
To have a real gig rig with either a toaster or rack, you need the foot controller too. This puts you at around $2400.00. There is a WHOLE lot of sunlight between a $2400 Kemper rig and either a Helix or AX8 (both around $1600). I suspect that Kemper will sell the lower priced "Stage" model 2 to 1 over the current head + floorboard combination.... maybe as much as 4 to 1.
This is a brilliant use of engineering resources and IMO (and I do this kind of thing for a living), will have a tremendous ROI (way better than a Kemper 2 or dual amps). Keeping the same code base for release is also essential. Personally, I would have liked to see a bluetooth interface with an iPhone and Android app for tablet control of editing; however, I totally see the simplicity of keeping as many of the critical buttons and knobs as possible to minimize the code changes needed to support the product.
While it would be nice not to need to connect a cable to edit remotely (or place the unit on a desk to edit), the vast majority of users will not be doing editing live (I certainly don't do this with the current product and can't ever see doing it in a live situation).
Professionals, and weekend warriors that prefer a faster stage setup with fewer cables will still greatly prefer the rack or toaster (I fall into that group). I don't see a large percent of people who already own a Kemper buying the new "Stage" .... other than the most ardent supporters here of course :).
For those that can't quite swing the full $2400 for the "premium" solution, the "stage" $1700 solution gives them the same capabilities and same tone ..... and it is smaller and lighter. Really, this is a winning combination.
Anyway ..... that is my read on the product. Great strategy CK.
