Posts by MarkusUz

Okay, it took a while, but I finally got my guitar back from the shop with DiMarzios installed, Tone Zone in the bridge. Compared to the EMG, it definitely sounds fuller and better. Maybe not as drastic as I thought, but I'm happy with it. It's like the EMG is missing a layer of beef in the low end, and the Zone puts it back.

But I still have to say, if this is about as best the Kemper can get, it's still quite far from what I could consider a professional sound.

I ordered Tone Zone and Air Norton. I really want to try something different now. I'll let you know how it goes, maybe put some sample clips.

Quote from nightlight

That kind of reaffirms my suspicion that something is odd with your pickups. My EMGs are barely 1-2 mm away from my strings, because they're supposed to be close to get a full signal.

Yeah, that has been bothering me... but there are others who have had the same issue with some EMGs, and they have either increased volts or distance.

I have made some inquiries:

Dimarzio suggested Imperium
http://www.dimarzio.com/node/8571

Seymour Duncan suggested Duality
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/duality-bridge

A guy at Thomann suggested either Dimarzio's Activator or SD Black Winter
http://www.dimarzio.com/node/2187
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/black-winter-neck

There is definitely a pattern here... they are all suggesting pickups with not that much bass... but why? I told them all that I want more low-end and a thicker, sturdier sound, and less of that muddy 250-550 Hz range. The guy from Thomann just answered "because it suits the style of music you play" (hard rock). I'm not sure what to do... all of them seem to have the same idea. It's just kind of opposite what I had imagined.

Quote from nightlight

I think you should try a different pup now after all these tests. It is very odd to me that your EMGs should be clipping, I'd guess there's something defective about them, which is very hard to prove, but seems likely given the massive cuts in CS that are required. It may even be a wiring problem, do you have the skills to check it out?

The Horizons are great guitars, I really love ESP but can't afford them. I have an ESP Horizon II Five-String Bass and it absolutely crushes most basses I've heard. Don't give up on the guitar, it's construction is likely to be superior to many of the things you'd sell it for.

I don't have the skills, alas. And I kind of suspect, no one is going to find a definite "fault" in the pup, so I won't bother sending it to EMG or anything. I guess I will have the pups changed, and they can check the wiring at the same time. The Tone Zone has been on my list at least. I don't know how good a match it would be with the Horizon, though. But I really want to make sure the low-end will be there and working properly.

Quote from MentaL

Pickup height can effect clipping

I put some clips earlier with heights from 2 mm to 6 mm, 9 V and 24 V. The normal 9 V was clipping all the way to 4 mm, which I think is too much. And as was pointed out in a graph, even the 24 V had a some clips, but I can't hear them though.

Ok, there's some clips again. The first there I recorded last, because I realized I had played it a little differently than nightlight. I needed to move my picking to over the neck pup and strum a little stronger yet looser. Nightlight's sounds better to me. More low-end. Less sterile and wetter (less mids I assume). And all-in-all a better, more organic sound.

The 2-4 I recorded first, but since they were played a little different, let them be examples of Clean Sense. There's my normal choice -7 along with 0 and -12. Minor clipping in 0 and sounds a little duller to me than -7. And -12 sounds a little weaker. I would still pick -7 of those. The differences are not big, but there's a little there.

I just read quikcly a review about ESP Horizon nt-2. It was praised, and as there was one pro and one con, the pro was: unbeatable pickup pairing. And the bridge pup was Seymour Duncan SH-4. Makes me think.

Quote from nightlight

You're a likeable guy too, @MarkusUz! The riff is pretty simple, I was playing open chords, so shouldn't be too hard for you to mimic.

When reamping, clean sense has a different function. It is to set the level of the DI. It should consistently light yellow, but not orange or red.

As far as clean sense and distortion sense in a normal situation, clean sense is used to match the perceived level of clean sounds to distorted sounds. And distortion sense is used as a kind of global gain control across distortion sounds, so two very different things.

Of course, one of the bits of advice you will always get on this forum when you have clipping on the input is to lower clean sense. But Mothership discounts this advice, as it is not what the section is intended to do.

It's all a bit mysterious to me and many others, and there still isn't a clear answer to it imo. If clean sense didn't impact the input, then why does the clipping stop when you reduce it?

Mods are going to bust in here and kick my ass anytime now lol, so let me start my screaming before they haul me away!

"Help! Clean sense doesn't work like they tell you it does! It's not just me, everybody says it! Help! Help!"

*shot in the dark* "Take that, you shmuck!"

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Hahaha... you know, I have always detested villains who talk to corpses. So, I hope you are alive, or were alive at least long enough to hear them call you a shmuck.

All I know... I can't set clean sense to zero, too much red. And I don't really reamp at all, it was just to test my Kemper. So that's not really my concern. But I can test the clean sense's effect to tone.

I wrote to EMG about a month or two ago about this, and never got an answer. Now I wrote again, with a link to the clips, and got a quite quick reply actually:

"...it doesn’t sound like there is anything wrong with the pickups from the sound samples you sent."
"The 57/66 is designed to have a similar voicing as a traditional PAF which means the tight end is not going to be as defined as an EMG 81 would..."

I wrote about "tight low end", so I guess that's what she means on the second one.

@nightlight, you had 81, right?

Quote from nightlight

But doesn't it affect the DI signal, @DonPetersen? I've found that if set too low, the DI signal loses a lot of its punch and becomes thinner. Or is that just on account of volume perception? Not too sure, but in my experience, setting clean sense too low makes the DI signal thinner, whereas increasing it makes it fatter.

This can be checked quite easily by @MarkusUz, though since you kindly pointed it out, it may not be a solution either.

Not too sure why his DI signal sounds very thin though. Some kind of filtering going on, so I'll reiterate my earlier suggestion of checking the SPDIF cable he's using, perhaps it's defective.

The newer clips are definitely better than the original ones though.

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Thanks @nightlight, I'll get to your clip later tonight. I can't say much yet, without recording the same riff. You are definitely a likable guy! hehe

I have been always puzzled about the clean sense. Both clean and distortion sense seem to control the balance between clean and distorted sounds. Why have two parameters for one thing?! Why not have an input gain to set the level first, and then a "sense" value to set the balance? I've tried reading about them, but I'm still not sure if I really get them. But surely I can test it. But any more clean sense will put the led light to red quite consistently.

I don't think it's the SPDIF, because I tested the reamping with Mental's clips and it seemed okay. Also, note the straight to Scarlett audio interface clip. So, I think it concludes it's the source, namely guitar.

@nightlight I really think that DI clip would be useful for comparison, I hope you still can make it. Thanks.

I did more tests.. as weak battery operation was suspected. Made DI clips with both 9 V (tested to be approximately okay) and 24 V mod (new batteries) with a new set of strings (Elixir 10-52), and changed the string height from pups 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm and 6mm. I included also Mental's clip and one from my Kramer with SD passive on the bridge, with height of 2-3mm (tilted). I also included one without Kemper straight to my Scarlett, but as it turned out sounding same as with Kemper, Kemper can't be the problem here. You can listen here:

*You can hear how to 9 V clips too close. I'm still not sure if it should clip so easily. I am not strumming hard.
*More height increases brightness/brittleness.
*9 V is a bit more stuffy, and 24 V more clear.
*I don't think in any of my clips the low end is handled well, as it just gets muffled and not defined and tight.

I'm not sure which one to take.. I have used recently 24 V 3 mm.. but maybe 24 V 2 mm is good too. But since the Kramer along with Mentals have such much more bass, I'm seriously thinking of switching to passives. Maybe Tone Zone or Breed, or Super Distortion. Any recommendations?

@MentaL I have to ask you.. Compared to all of my clips, even when I used cobalt strings, you seem to have a scoop in the mids (say 250-550 Hz). In Dimarzio's website Breed is listed as TMB = 6.5 / 9.0 / 8.0 making it quite mid-heavy. Are you sure you didn't use an EQ pedal or something? Or how else would you explain this?

Quote from nightlight

Let me know if you want a clip with my six string with EMGs.

Making it downloadable would also help, as I could put it in my Cubase and examine it a little closer. Thank you verrry much.

Quote from nightlight

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Here you go, @MarkusUz. This is actually an 8 string guitar, but I'm playing the riff on the B string. Pickups are a 57-8 and 66-8. Think it sounds more full-bodied than your clips, though not as good as Mental's. Which is why I think you need to look into how you are recording the DI, I have a feeling something is EQing your signal. It could even be a faulty SPDIF cable.

Let me know if you want a clip with my six string with EMGs.

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It definitely sounds better than mine, much more full-bodied.

Yes, please, if you can send so I could compare it in the same pitch. That's now 3 half-steps lower, so the comparison is not that good.

e: oh and please, use only bridge pups

Thanks, @nightlight , I'll check that out.

Do you think you could send me your DI... if you have an EMG, I'd be happy to really examine it, see if I can find a difference, check the frequency spectrums. Just strumming or a riff. In D-standard if possible, and some other tuning is fine also. String gauges and distance of strings to pup is useful info also.

I'm still considering the passive, but before I change the pickup I want to know I'm getting the best of my EMG. I was thinking a Tone Zone maybe. I like it's descriprion, and the Dimarzio pickup picker gave in as one of the three options it recommends with a couple of genres I tested. It gave the Super Distortion as number 1 with two different genres.. but I wasn't so blasted away by it's description. I'm sure it's a good pickup too though.

Quote from nightlight

If you've chosen a tuning, stick with it! The music shouldn't have to be changed in order to fix a problem.

I have a huge problem with having to choose a pickup without even testing it out. It's the worst situation you can be in, because most pickups have their own character even within the same product line and it's also expensive to have to keep buying them/testing them/sending them back for another model.

See if you can find someone using Imperiums in your area, or whether any musical instrument stores have a guitar with one installed in the bridge. Test out other pickups too, maybe you will find something that you like.

One more suggestion: Mental used a passive pickup in his clip, yours are active. Why not ask a friend with a guitar with passive pickups to come over and just try to record this riff a couple of times. If it sounds closer to Mental's or better than yours, then you have your answer. But if there isn't much of a change and the tone still sounds brittle, I would guess there is something going funny at the recording stage, but I don't know what.

One more thing: are you recording with SPDIF or the main output signal? Could your cables be cutting your low and high end? It has been known to happen.

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Good advices!

One of the pickups in soundcloud was a passive. I have had trouble getting other guitarists to come, as I don't really know anyone in my home town. But it would be really useful to have another player, guitar. But I have been thinking a bout getting a Dimarzio passive. At least I can compare then.

I record with SPDIF... and recording with other options seems to produce about the same result. I have tried also the DI straight to audio interface. But it really does sound like the lows are cut, or that there's something wrong with the lows. The end result doesn't have to be like Mental's necessarily... I just want a good sound!

Quote from nightlight

EMGs aren't generally brittle, but they have a certain mid-scooped character to them that I'm not a big fan of. I've always wanted more definition in my tone and while the EMGs aren't bad by any means, they are just not my sound. I'm leaning toward putting something like Invaders or X2Ns into the guitar.

It probably makes more sense to have that high frequency content in your reamped sound and then EQ it out in the mixing stages, I think, but there are no hard and fast rules.

I'd say try tuning your guitar a step lower before getting too worried about this. Also, record the DI while really laying into your strings. I have a feeling you'll be happy with the results. As it stands, the reamped tones are pretty similar, it's just the tuning that is different, plus the difference in playing.

I tried tuning down and, ugh, it sounded even worse. No matter how I play it. And then I tried tuning up, back to normal E, and it sounded better. Much tighter. But I have used strings where the 6. string is 54-56, so it should be thick enough for D. But maybe I will experiment with even a 60, just to see if the gauge solves it. I would love to play in E, but all of my projects go in standard D, and I can't really change it.

But I still think the pickup has a role in this. And EQing after the accident has happened doesn't really work, it's just going to be a brittle sound without high-end. Much better to have a tighter sound with high end, by putting the cut in front of the amp. Well, that's how I see it. But maybe with other pickups the cut wouldn't even be necessary. I hope.

I wrote to Dimarzio and their recommendation for me was the Imperium for bridge. Unfortunately, I can't find a place in Europe that sells them. Ordering from US, I would have to pay taxes. I'm not sure if I want to invest so much without really knowing if that's what's best for me.

Quote from nightlight

I have an EMG 81-85 combo in that guitar. Not my favourite pickups, because I prefer passives.

Listening again to your DI, I'm not convinced there is something wrong with it after listening to the reamped track. I'd say the differences in tone between your and Mental's recordings are due to the difference in the way the guitar was played - Mental's sounds more sure and palm muted, the other one sounds loose and with strings ringing out.

Do you also get the feeling that the EMGs make things too brittle? Since MentaL's frequency spetcrum lacked much more from the high-end, I experimented by putting a high cut in front of the amp section in a distorted rig, and it definitely made the sound better. Funnily enough, the frequency spectrum of the sound doesn't really chance with the high cut, the sound just becomes sturdier as it loses the brittleness. I didn't know it goes like that. Anyway, this kind of points me to considering pickups with less high-end. Or what is the reason you prefer passives?

They are played differently for sure. I wasn't really concentrating on that, since I thought the separation and definition of the frequencies, along with the frequency spectrum, were the more important things here. But it's a good point. It would be better to make the comparison, if they were played more similarly and with the same tuning. Also the string gauge might be different.. let's wait Mental to answer what he used on that clip.

Quote from MentaL

and how did you find the cobalt strings ?

Well, in the DI it sounds really bright. That could be a good thing, but I kinda feel everything bright ends up being brittle. So I guess they won't be my choice in the future, at least if I keep using the EMGs.

On playability, hard to make slides on the wounds, like too much friction to my taste. And as I have 11-54, the 3. string being 22 is just too thick to my taste. I never liked them when they start to look like ordinary iron wire.

But I'm sure they are really good when it fits the guitar and pickup tonally. It seems to go well with a darker pickup like the Breed.

How do you like them? And what gauge do you use?

Quote from nightlight

The ESP isn't a lightweight, I have a Ltd and it doesn't sound as thin as your DIs. I'm guessing it's thinner because something is going wrong with the actual recording of the DI. It's not even the pickups, imo.

Yeah... I just for the love of life can't fathom what the problem is. Guitar -> Kemper -> SPDIF -> Interface.

Btw, what pickup do you have on the Ltd?

No one have commented on the possibility of the interface affecting the sound.. I'm still puzzled if it has any significance.

Quote from MentaL

No 2 guitars ever sound the same though and the Jem is a hand crafted guitar so once again the wood and everything else effects the tone.

Yes, I understand. But I'm not worried about them sounding just different, but your clip sounding so much better than all of mine, three different guitars. It's like yours is really defined, while mine are clouded.

I would, as nightlight, also say that it's something systematic in the recordings. But as I simply can't comprehend what it could be. Therefore my pick would have been the pickups. Okay, I'm not saying it couldn't be the guitar, but then why on earth I spent 2000 euros on a new guitar if it doesn't solve the problem of having these cloudy recordings. This is really frustrating.

Quote from MentaL

Guitar maybe?

Well, there's three different guitars there, and the ESP is supposed to be quite high-quality. But then again... there's three different pickups there, and they are also supposed to be high-quality.

So, you don't think it's the pickup?

Quote from MentaL

remember i keep my clean and distortion sence all set at 0, i very rarely change this and all output volumes are 0.

Thanks for joining. Yes, I seem to remember you mentioning this. But if I put it to 0, it will go to red all the time. Also, I think it shouldn't affect anything else than volume.

Do you have any idea why your DI sounds so much better than mine? If it's not to the pickup, or possibly the audio interface... then I can't guess what it is.

Quote from nightlight

Ideally, it should be consistently hitting yellow when you create the DI signal. One or two flashes of red if you really slam the guitar don't matter, what matters is when you play normally at a regular velocity, it should not constantly light up in red.

Well, that's about how I have set it. It's around minus 5-7, and it hits red on an occasional hard strum. Also... I was under the impression that the Clean Sense doesn't affect the sound (quality)?