Maybe someone who designs and builds amps can confirm if this effect is also at play between pre and power amp sections. Assuming it is, it may be part of the reason many people eventually went from rack pre/power amp setups to traditional amp heads.
Alan, I rarely disagree with you, but I must disagree with this part of your post. And frankly, considering that I know you own a Mesa Stereo 2:90 power amp, I am not sure how you have come to ponder whether there is some truth to that.
Do you hear a difference between a head and your Mesa rack gear? I sure don't.
I do agree that by profiling a preamp and a separate power amp, then loading each on two separate Kempers might lose something as the interaction of the electrical systems of the two devices might be lost. But I badly want to try it.
So I will get a Stage. I want to wait until the OS 7.0 is in full release. I might also wait for a Kemper Kabinet before I buy the Stage. If the Kabinet release drags until next year, I will pull the trigger on the Stage first.
Once I've purchased a Stage to go with my non powered Rack, I also want to profile my Wheebo Plexface overdrive pedal. I'd load the Plexface profile into the Stage and a DAP into the Rack, connecting them by S/PDIF. I would profile the pedal by itself without a tube amp.
I suspect the result will be excellent because an overdrive pedal's characteristic sound is by definition extremely close to that of an overdriven tube amp.
There would be some huge advantages to having multiple profiles of the Plexface (or any overdrive pedal without full MIDI implementation).
1. You can create presets of as many settings as you want and switch instantly between them.
2. You can use expression pedals to vary parameters such as drive, volume, EQ, etc.
Granted, the variable parameters will not be those on the pedal's pots. They will be the ones made available by Kemper. But by doing profiles with various combinations of settings of the pots on the pedal, I can come close to capturing the sound of the pedal with lots of the variations of the pots. That is certainly more parameter control than having to bend over and turn a knob while playing.
The Plexface has two sections. They can be selected individually or together (connected in series). So it is like two pedals in one.
It also has a lot of controls that add up to a whole lot of flexibility. There are 6 switches and 6 pots that affect parameters.
The first section does a switchable model of a '59 or an '87 Plexi, with level, tone and drive controls. The second section has a '57 or a '65 Blackface with volume, treble and bass controls. There is also a switch for flat or pushed midrange and low end that is global to both sections. And there is a switch that changes the power from 9 to 18 volts for added headroom.
There are even trimmer resistors and pots inside the pedal to fine tune the sound of the Plexface. I haven't played with them, because I love the stock settings. But I plan on trying out some of these adjustments if the profiling works. They'd be just as easy to add to the profile as any other setting.
So if I can make really accurate profiles of my Plexface I will have far more hands free / instant control over its sounds than what the pedal itself can offer.
the main goal of being of being the most affordable option, while still delivering the best possible signal from the Kemper to the DAW
OK so I totally missed the point that it has to be really, really cheap and it has to be able to deliver "the best possible signal from the Kemper to the DAW".
Sorry, I just didn't understand that those two requirements are not mutually exclusive. I stand corrected.
No warranty if it’s not an authorized dealer. Caveat Emptor!!
Universal Audio Twin MkII has two analog Mic / Line / Hi Z inputs, 4 line outputs and an ADAT or S/PDIF input. To connect to a Kemper, you'd need a decent S/PDIF to lightpipe adapter.
The A/D and D/A quality is excellent. Many commercial music releases have been made using Apollo Twin. Better still, you get access to all of the world class UAD plugins.
You can get a Twin Mk II with a single DSP chip for $599. The 2 chip model is $799 and the 4 chip model is $1199.
GeoZorbas , please take a breath and realize that no one here meant to insult you in any way. You made some statements in your first post in this thread that did show a misunderstanding of some of the
terms and methods used for creating profiles. The comments were not an attack on your
philosophy; they were an attempt to show you where your facts were incorrect.
And they pointed you to areas where you could find some answers and potentially get better results.
Profiling is an art. Part of that art is selecting the best method for creating a profile. Part of that art is
microphone placement. Part of that art is dialing in the sound you want on the device you are profiling.
Even knowing how many profiles you need to make to get the totality of the device you are profiling
can be tough to gauge.
My suggestion is to keep at it. Re-read the manual sections on profiling. Until you get experience in making
profiles of all types, you may struggle getting exactly what you are looking for.
+1; but I seriously doubt this will happen. At least on the Rack or Toaster.
I suspect it would have been done long ago if it was possible. There may be a hardware issue preventing S/PDIF routing as an external hardware loop. Of course any multi-effects unit would have to be able to act as a slave to a Toaster or Rack which must act as a master.
I have asked here for an effects loop that can connect via S/PDIF so I could use my Universal Audio Apollo plugins as Kemper external effects without a redundant A/D and D/A step.
BTW, if it is possible to do a S/PDIF loop, make this available on the Stage as an alternative as well. Just limit the total number of loops to two so that profiles work across all models. That would allow any multi-effects unit with S/PDIF I/O to connect with Stage in the digital domain. It can act as a slave or a master.
If I have morph set up on both the Stage and the Rack, and I hit a morph button on the Stage, will the Rack also morph? This is assuming the Stage connects to the Rack via midi.
I think you will have to follow the steps outlined in the video for using UI to MIDI.
One of the most significant new features of the Stage is the ability to act as a slave when connected via S/PDIF.
Until the release of the Stage, you could not connect two Kempers serially via S/PDIF. That is because the Rack
and the Toaster must always be set as a master. As with Aladdin's Genie, two masters are a non starter.
So why not use analog I/O to connect two Racks, Toasters or one of each? You can, but you add an unnecessary
A/D and D/A conversion step. I want to avoid that step, so I will be buying a Stage instead of a used Rack or Toaster
to go with my non powered Rack.
What will I do with 2 Kempers connected in series?
Here's one example.
I plan to make some profiles of my Wheebo Plexface overdrive with no amp in the signal chain. Here's the signal path:
Guitar --> Kemper --> Radial X-Amp --> Plexface --> "From Amplifier" on the Kemper Profiler DI Box --> To Profiler XLR jack connects to the Profiler's input and the to Cabinet jack connects to a cab.
The X-Amp provides the pedal with a Hi Z guitar level output that the Plexface expects at its input. Note that the cab is not really needed here because there is no tube amp in the signal chain.
Once I have the overdrive's profile, I load it into the first Kemper's stack. Now I can load a Merged, Studio or Direct Amp Profile into the second Kemper's stack.
You could name the rigs or performance slots in the Stage to indicate the contents of both units. If the stage has a Marshall in a performance slot, and the slave unit has a Vox, you could name the slot “Marshall + Vox” in the Stage.
Sure, but all that is doing is telling you what is loaded on the slave unit. I hope to be able to change the focus of the controls and display, so I can make specific adjustments to the rig loaded on the slave in real time.
Right now, if I have different effects on each rig, when I hit button IIII on the Stage, I assume I will be doing something to the slave, which I may or may not want to do. At the very least, it would be a huge advantage to be able to assign foot buttons I, II, III, and IIII to the specific unit under UI to MIDI. That would sort of be like changing banks.
It really comes down to using one foot controller to try to do different things on two units. That is not what it was meant or designed to accomplish.
The release of the Stage will likely incentivize users to sell their Kemper Toaster or Rack and Remote. Kemper must have expected that. I don't think that Kemper was thinking that some Stage buyers would sell their Remote but keep their other Kemper. Nor, I suspect, have they fully fleshed out the issues that might arise when using a Stage as a Remote with a second Kemper.
I love the potential synergy of having a second Kemper. There will be all sorts of ways to combine two of them. I was going to buy another non powered Rack before Stage was announced.
Because Stage can connect via S/PDIF to my Rack as a slave, I can connect serially without leaving the digital domain. Two Racks can't do that. They both must be set as master. Add the extra external effects loop and the Stage is a home run for my use case.
BTW, any extra function I get from the Stage's form factor as a foot controller is only added value to me. I already own a MMGT10. And I still intend to use the Stage and Rack only in studio, with the Rack in front of me on the desk and the Stage at my feet. The foot control of both units will allow me to control each unit in real time with my feet while I track.
I currently have the rack and remote. The only interest I have in the stage is if it could replace my remote purely as the remote for gigs where I want to use my rack and for other gigs where the stage would do.
The Stage offers "UI to MIDI".
And while "UI to MIDI" transmits many controllers including the whole navigation within Performance Mode, the data doesn't have to be the same. You could store different Rigs in Slot m of Performance n of master versus slave PROFILER.
If I understand you correctly V8guitar, you'd like to have the Stage visually show what it is doing when controlling the Rack. So in effect, the Stage would become a full blown Remote for the Rack.
Even though the Stage can control the Rack, as per Burkhard's quote above, to do so would require a way of changing the focus of the controls and display to whichever unit it was controlling.
Burkhard , can the Stage do so?
I suspect the Stage can only focus on the settings it is controlling on its built in processor. But I hope I am incorrect.
BTW, until a full owner's manual specific to the Stage is published, we won't know about a lot of the details about what it can do (if anything) as a MIDI controller of other devices. We also won't know how flexible or comprehensive the MIDI implementation is.
I suggest that the Stage will need to have a separate manual for programming techniques if it can be used as a MIDI foot controller with other devices.
I also think that Kemper should consider the ways that two Kempers could be used together with an eye towards maximizing their possible synergies.
Doing so could increase the market for both the Stage, the Rack or the Toaster.
If the Stage has "UI to Midi" like the toaster/rack then you can control another Kemper with the Stage.
I believe that UI to MIDI turns the two Kempers into a master and a slave. That implies that if you do an action on the master, the slave follows with exactly the same action. This makes perfect sense for using a second Kemper as a backup in case of catastrophic fail during a performance.
But it doesn't address whether the Stage can also send MIDI data to make changes to the second Kemper (Rack or Toaster) to create a different action on the slave than the one being triggered on the master.
So if you want to use two Kempers to make different sounds at the same time, UI to MIDI is not going to work for you.
As an example, I want to be able to morph between two different profiles (think: amp stacks). Since a single Kemper can only load one profile, you need two Kempers to accomplish this kind of morph.
In this situation, I want to use a pedal to control the output level between the two Kempers. As I increase the output level from min to max on Kemper 1, I want the reverse to happen on Kemper 2 . It should decrease in output level at the same rate. This becomes the morph control.
I have a non powered rack and would like to use a Stage with a pedal plugged into it to control this morph between the two Kempers. I am hoping that with the single pedal, I can use MIDI to control the output of the Stage and the Rack at the same time. That means that the Stage would need to be able to send MIDI CC and PC data and at the same time control the Stage.
There is a very big implication here. Doing the above (if it is possible) will take some MIDI programming unless the new editor will let you use the Stage as a remote for the Rack via MIDI. For that to happen, the editor probably needs to be able to see both Kempers, which I doubt it will do.
I suggest that anyone contemplating using a Stage and a Rack or Toaster together, keep your Kemper Remote.
Thanks for the reply Mr. Kemper.
I don't use hardware effects at this point. I use Universal Audio Apollos running UAD plugins. I can easily set up each of two Kempers with the same effects. So that is not an issue for me.
The Apollos have more than enough DSP to handle the plugins with near zero latency. And the plugins on the UAD platform are world class quality. They are almost indistinguishable from the hardware they model.
I also plan to run stereo and hexaphonic guitar soon. I am going to modify my Hamer Duotone. It will soon have a Cycfi Nu2 Multi (hexaphonic) pickup and two Fluence Open Core classic humbuckers wired in stereo. The Fluence pickups each have three voices, which I will be able to select independently.
I want a parallel path for the Fluence pickups wired in stereo. In some cases I will be using both paths with the same effects. In some cases I will use different effects on each path.
The Cycfi hex pickup will be multed, sent dry to six separate tracks in Logic, and also mixed to stereo. The stereo signal may go through the two Kempers or into stereo Apollo Unison guitar amp sims.
Later I can manipulate the dry hex signals in all sorts of creative ways. Since this use case doesn't require real time output, I can experiment to my heart's content in my studio.
I want a Stage but I want to wait a while. I already have a non powered Rack and an RJM Mastermind GT10. So the form factor isn't such a big deal for me.
What is compelling is the potential of using two Kempers together. My Kemper Rack will stay in front of me on my desk. The Stage will be on the floor at my feet.
Once the editor is released, the Rack will act like a control surface. Remember that any profile should work on any model.
Raoul23, you might want to consider adding a few options to your pole.
1. Later, but yes.
2. No, never.
My Hamer Duotone has (as its name implies) both a magnetic and a piezo output. So I am in the same boat as Alan.
I would love to be able to make full use of these by plugging the electric guitar (magnetic pickups) into one input and the acoustic (Piezo pickup) into a separate input. Then have the Piezo run through the existing parallel path while the magnetic pickups feed the stack.
I too find that a blend of the two voices can create a fabulous tone. But at times I want either solely piezo and at other times I want solely magnetic voices. Of course, I also want to use effects that are built in to the Kemper. Being able to control which effects and their parameter levels for each path separately is a must.
Talking about dual amping or parallel effects routing. We have a unique feature set that is relating to the serial signal flow as it is. That is „condition-free spillover“ of the DLY and REV module, individual output sources such as Stack, Mod, Dly&Rev wet - and especially MonitorCabOff, to switch off the cabinet solely for the Monitor Output and run a real guitar speaker through the power amp. Those features can be set globally, without tweaking every individual rig.
We know that a very large part of our customers utilize and enjoy these features. With dual amping or parallel effects routing those features are not possible, because there would be no determined points in the signal flow any more.
What do you think?
Mr. Kemper, I think I understand what you are saying, when you specify doing this on a single Kemper. But two Kempers in parallel would be able to do dual amp and/or effects routing. The only potential issue I see would be some sort of phase issue between the two Kempers. I note that the Stage can be set as a slave when used with S/PDIF I/O. If you used S/PDIF to connect a Rack or Toaster (set as master) to a Stage (set as slave), would potential phase issues be eliminated?
And of course with two Kempers, a dual output guitar can have a set of parallel effects.
I am almost positive I will get a Stage to go with my non powered rack.
the kemper stage means one or two more years without a really new kemper amp with dual amps and better digital audio connections (usb audio and aes/ebu)..
2 more years? Not for me. I am getting a Stage to go with my non powered rack.
As for better digital audio connections...
I'd like to see the S/PDIF I/O be able to act as a slave. Otherwise it is more than adequate for my needs.
There likely will never be USB audio or AES/EBU connections inside a Kemper. Get an interface and get over it.
But for me this accoustic simulator will be the most important KPA-upgrade since I bought it in 2015
Check out Blue Cat's Re-Guitar plugin.
Also, if you have access to a Universal Audio Apollo or satellite, consider using the Sound Machine Wood Works plugin after Re-Guitar. It really adds a lot of the sound of a top notch acoustic being mic'd up in the studio from a piezo acoustic source.
I think that the Wood Works plugin will help in a live situation as well. Since there is almost zero latency with Apollo when the Console app is used to monitor and load a plugin, there is no reason not to use it with a piezo pickup or the Kemper mag to acoustic effect when it is released.