Posts by scratch17

    there is no guitar in the signal chain and hence cannot influence the profile itself.

    When creating a Studio profile, during the initial stage of the process, the Kemper outputs proprietary sounds into the amp you are profiling. So no guitar influence at all. Once the first stage is complete, you can use your guitar to audition the results.


    If you hate the results, start over. Try positioning the mic differently. Try putting a mover's blanket over the cab. Move the amp in the room. Replace the mic with a different one. Try two mics with a mixer. You get the idea. Profiling is an art. It takes some time to nail it.


    If you think it is close but not quite the sound you are looking for, you can try refining the profile in the refining stage. It does have you playing your guitar to generate the sound the Kemper uses to do the refining stage. So technically speaking, your guitar is getting a tiny amount of influence on the finished product.


    However, if you make a profile and refine it twice with different guitars, I doubt you will be able to tell the difference between the two results.


    Pedal Profiling:


    If you want to profile just the sound of a pedal, I have a suggestion. The drawback is that this method requires 2 Kempers; one will host the pedal profile, the other will host the amp profile. If you look here+ in this post, I describe a way to use a single Kemper with a tube amp which replaces the need for a second Kemper.


    To make the pedal profile, make a Direct Amp Profile with this chain:


    Kemper --> Re-amp box --> Pedal(s)* --> Solid State Preamp** --> Kemper


    The re-amp box is in the chain so that the Kemper's output is at the correct level and impedance to be input to the pedal. The solid state preamp will be totally clean by itself, so it will not add or take away from the sound of the pedal. It is in the chain to do the reverse of the re-amp box. It takes the pedal's output and makes it a low impedance, line level output.


    *Note that you can use two or more pedals and make a profile of their combined effect.


    ** Use any decent home stereo receiver or preamp that has line level outputs. If your receiver only has -10dBv output, you can use a clean mixer to convert the signal to +4 dBu. Most mixers will have RCA -10dBv inputs so you won't even need cable adapters.


    Once the pedal profile is made, you have some patching options.


    1. You can connect the two Kempers in series. It is your option as to which order you want the profiles. For example pedal --> tone stack or tone stack --> pedal.


    2. Connect Kemper #2 in the X slot of Kemper #1. Host the pedal profile with Kemper #2.


    It isn't clear to me whether the X slot can be set up before the tone stack with the latest release. If it can, you have another option to consider with this connection method. Do you place the X slot in front of or after the tone stack?


    There is something else to consider. Using a fuzz, distortion, or boost pedal alters the gain staging and tonal character which determines the overall sound.


    A lot of manufacturers design their pedals to emulate the gain staging and tonal character of classic amps. My Weehbo Plexface is a great example. Much of the characteristics of a specific tube amp's sound comes from the preamp section.


    So why not make a profile of a preamp instead of a pedal? Then use the two Kempers to create this chain:


    Preamp Profile --> Tube amp profile.


    In effect, the preamp profile replaces the pedal profile. Note that routing a preamp into a preamp is the same thing as the classic Marshall Plexi and Fender Bassman amps with channel jumping.


    + There is no reason that you can't use a single Kemper with a DAP of a preamp or a pedal with a real tube amp. This has some significant advantages over a pedalboard.


    I have a Voodoo Labs GCX and an RJM Mastermind GT. I place my Kemper in a loop on the GCX and patch the GCX so that the Kemper's output can go to two different destinations.


    The destinations place the Kemper either in front of my amp or in the amp's serial effects loop. I can switch destinations instantly with the MMGT.


    Effectively (pardon the pun), the Kemper becomes my pedalboard.


    I can use the Kemper's built in time based effects by themselves in the amp's effects loop.


    Or I can place a pedal or preamp profile in front of the amp by connecting the Kemper to the front of my tube amp. My setup is just like the classic one where pedals do the distortion, fuzz, etc. and the tube amp channel is clean.


    At this point, I have not figured out a way to use both types of effects (distortion in front, time based in the amp's effects loop) at the same time. Of course, that would be ultra tasty.





    My interpretation of your request is that you want your DAW to host the Kemper's built in effects in a Kemper plugin.


    Going out of the Kemper to an audio interface / computer / DAW and then back to the Kemper will add noticeable round trip latency, compared to using the internal effects of the Kemper hosted by its DSP. And any plugin(s) hosted by the DAW will add more latency.


    Furthermore, you will add CPU load onto the computer. Why take away from its capacity when there is DSP available in the Kemper to host its effects.

    the issue of whether to "record" the great FX or try and rebuild something in Logic on the dry tones that gets close.

    Your reasoning is that you want to be able to record both a dry signal, and a wet signal while you track. Guess what? You can do both.


    Just re-amp using the Kemper effects if you feel that you cannot use Logic's effects to get the tone you want.


    Record the dry tone, while monitoring the tone you want with the Kemper's effects as you track. I use the S/PDIF coaxial output on my Kemper to lay down a dry track, while I monitor with the Kemper's effects from the main analog output.


    Make sure that you note the effects you are using, their settings, and their order. Then send the dry track back into the Kemper and apply the effects you want. :thumbup:

    If you have Celemony's Melodyne (Studio or Plugin) you can simulate a 12 string easily. The result is perfect for recording. You just cannot do it in real time.


    I use my VG-99 to set up a 12 string from my 6 string guitars in real time. I turn off all of the other parameters (amp, cab, effects, etc.) and feed my Kemper the output from the VG-99. It works really well. The Boss GP-10 can also do these pitch effects. You do need a hex pickup in either case, though.


    Note that you can do any alternate tunings with either of the above methods too.

    While I have but one profiler as of now, I am looking to buy a second. So I've read this thread from start to finish.


    I have a MOTU MIDI Express XT USB and an RJM MMGT10. I was planning on connecting the MIDI out from KPA 1 to the Express XT, then splitting that signal to feed the KPA2 and the MMGT10.


    I think that I can use separate MIDI channels on the two Kempers so I can control them separately via the MMGT. Will this setup work, or am I incorrect.


    Note that I want to have different rigs on the 2 Kempers.

    I was aware that Bradshaw had done some custom work (as in Custom Audio Electronics). I just didn't know that his gear reduced the level from speaker to line so that the time based effects could be placed after the power amp.


    Of course, even with 2 Kempers (one for pre profile + one for power profile), you could place an Apollo after the second instead of between them. I was planning on trying both placements for comparison. My emphasis on where the effects are placed was made based on modern tube amps with a serial effects loop.


    Note that the Apollo has many classic plugin emulations, including effects from Lexicon and Eventide among others. I have long been an advocate of guitarists using these studio effects rather than going with another box of multi-effects like the really good ones already available in the Kemper. And the Apolo's Console 2 application, while limited, can create all sorts of parallel chains.

    That’s way over my head.

    I get your "that's way too complicated to deal with" reaction. I get that all the time in my studio. Guitarists want to plug and play.


    However, I think that there is a conception issue here.


    Consider this minimalist guitar rig.


    Guitar --> tone shaping devices --> preamp --> effect loop send --> time based effects --> effect loop return --> power amp --> cabinet


    Tone shaping devices would be fuzz, overdrive, distortion, boost, EQ, compression, gate etc.


    Now try to conceive of the above chain as blocks of functions. This is just like algorithm generation in object oriented programming. In OOP the 'blocks' are called modules. The modules also have internal algorithms.


    As blocks of functions, the chain now looks like this:


    Block 1: pedals in front of the amp -->

    Block 2: the preamp -->

    Block 3: the time based effects -->

    Block 4: the power amp -->

    Block 5: the speaker cabinet(s)


    This is what I call my concept chain.


    Note that you wouldn't hesitate to change amps, pedals or cabs in the real world. But owning loads of pedals and amps is expensive. So you bought a Kemper. It provides you that ability in the virtual world.


    Now compare the concept chain to the following chain:


    Kemper 1 --> Apollo --> Kemper 2 --> (Optional) guitar cab or Kemper Kone


    Inside the Kemper 1 you have 4 stomp slots for effects such as fuzz, distortion, overdrive, EQ, compression, etc. Then you load a preamp profile into the tone stack. So Kemper 1 contains Blocks 1 and 2.


    Next the Apollo implements Block 3. Of course this could be any time based effect device like a Fractal FX 3, Line 6 Helix, etc.


    Finally, Kemper 2 contains Block 4 with a power amp loaded into the tone stack.


    Thanks to the flexibility of the Kemper, you have plenty of options for the cabinet block. (Block 5 in my concept chain).


    You can use the Kemper's cab block, load an IR, or even add a different hardware device that has virtual cabinets. For example, a hardware IR pedal, or a Fractal, etc.


    But you can leave the virtual world here and use real guitar cabs powered by a solid state amp. Remember that the pre and power amp profiles combined make a direct amp profile, so this is an ideal 'in the real world' solution for getting an amp in the room feel.


    Or you can use Kemper Kone technology when it becomes available. :P


    Bottom line is that I have just replaced the functions contained in my concept chain with 2 Kempers and an Apollo. Doing so may look intimidating, but it really isn't if you can conceive of the translation from real world hardware to devices that can implement the functions you need to get the sound you want.

    If you want to try it out though download my 2:ninety profiles from RE and pair them with your various pre amps to see if the concept is what you are looking for

    I will definitely do that. I have a Mesa Rectifier Recording preamp with the same 'Modern' mode as the Triaxis. From the Recto Pre manual:


    Quote


    the MODERN trigger jack on the Rear Panel of the Rectifier Preamp to the MODERN trigger port on the Rear Panel of the power amp. This scheme recreates the Recto sound in its authentic form because the negative feedback is removed at the power amp when MODERN is selected on the preamp. This tracking of power styles is identical to that which occurs in the Dual & Triple Rectifier Heads and is crucial to the performance of these Lead sounds.

    With your profile of the 2:90 with the modern switch on, I believe I can achieve this sound. So thanks for the new sound!


    I never thought it was possible to make power amp profiles. So thanks again for the info.


    My application for separating pre and power amp profiles is designed for use in the studio.


    I have made profiles of my Recto Pre, Marshall JCM-2000 DSL-401, Marshall AS80-R (solid state acoustic guitar amp), Ampeg AX-70 and a Fender AB-763 Blackface clone. Now that I know I can do it, I want to profile the power amp sections.

    I am looking for a used Kemper at a good price to implement some of my ideas. I want to set up the first Kemper with a preamp profile in the tone stack. The output from the first Kemper will go into the second Kemper so the two are connected serially. The second Kemper will have a power amp section loaded in the tone stack.


    Why bother with this when I could just create a DAP in one Kemper? There are a lot of reasons.


    1. With a single Kemper, you cannot split the tone stack. So you cannot put time based effects between the pre and power amp sections of the profile.


    2. With 2 Kempers, you get 16 slots. And two loops for external hardware. So you could have a loop with low level pedals and a second loop with a line level effect.


    3. In my setup, Kemper 1 becomes the preamp and Kemper 2 becomes the power amp. So there is a physical break point between the two sections, just like a real amp with an effects loop.


    There is a hardware loop available in Kemper 1, another in Kemper 2, and a third by inserting any physical gear between the two Kempers.


    Why would you need three effects loops? Read on.


    4. You can stay in the digital domain between the two Kempers. What does this imply and why is it an advantage? You can use the coaxial S/PDIF output on Kemper 1 to feed Kemper 2. You do not need to go from an analog output on Kemper 1 to an analog input on Kemper 2. That reduces the conversions to one A/D and D/A from end to end.


    But since there is a physical break between the two Kempers, there is an insert point between them. So that point is where I will insert my Universal Audio Apollo. It is not just a great audio interface. It can be used a killer stand alone effects box with near zero latency. The physical chain would look like this:


    Kemper 1 --> Apollo --> Kemper 2


    With this chain, I can use a preamp profile in Kemper 1 and UA effect(s) between the preamp profile and the power amp profile loaded into Kemper 2.


    The Apollo will add studio quality effects unavailable on any other effects platform to my Kemper profiles. The available plugins cover all types of classic effects like the Korg SDD-3000, Ocean Way Studios, Roland's Space Echo and Dimension D, Antares Autotune Advanced Realtime, Empirical Labs EL8 Distressor, etc.


    5. In the real world, you would never find a Marshall DSL preamp combined with a Mesa 20/20 (EL84 Dyna-Watt) power amp. But with the ability to create a power amp profile of the Mesa 20/20, I can do just that.


    I can create a DAP of the real Marshall preamp feeding the real Mesa power amp, which is cool. I've actually already done that. But what if I want to switch preamps or power amp combinations? Again, I've already done DAPs of all of my personal gear.


    But I have a buddy who has 20+ guitar amps. I want them all!


    Instead of creating 400+ combinations, I would rather make profiles of 20 more preamps and 20 more power amps. Then I can use two Kempers to create the combinations. And I can switch between profiles loaded on each Kemper using my RJM Mastermind GT with a push of a button.


    This is my dream setup. I have asked for a split tone stack so I could do many of these types of operations, but have gotten no joy. Until now.


    Note that you could use any effects box between two Kempers. I am using a UA Apollo because it has some really unique effects that just are not available on a traditional effects box.


    There are other setup chains that should be mentioned here.


    Apollo --> Kemper


    Here you can put a Unison plugin in front of the Kemper. Hi Z Unison amp and pedal sims have a hardware /software interaction that more closely mimics the interaction between your guitar and a real world tube amp or pedal. Obviously you could simply put a Tube Screamer before your Kemper so the pedals are not a big deal.


    But there are Unison amp plugins from Friedman (Dirty Shirley, Buxom Betty and BE-100), Fuchs (Train II, Overdrive Supreme 50), Suhr (PT-100, SE-100), and the Diezel Herbert, which can turn off their preamp or power amp sections. So you are able to mix and match these pre and power amp sections from both sources. Obviously with this configuration, you'd load a preamp into the Apollo (amp and cab off) and use a power amp profile loaded into the tone stack of the Kemper.


    Kemper --> Apollo


    Here you can do the reverse. Load a preamp profile into the Kemper and a power amp and cab into the Apollo.


    You can also load a DAP into the Kemper. Then turn off both the preamp and power amp sections of an Apollo amp sim, just leaving the plugins' cabinet sims. This instantly adds a vast array of world class cabinet sims to a Kemper with a DAP loaded into the tone stack. I've done this configuration before, and it can be amazing.

    Is there any chance that in OS 6, the S/PDIF ports could be used as connections for either an FX loop in the Stomp slots or the X block after the stack? This would provide an extra hardware insertion point for a second effects loop.

    The 2:ninety actually has a Line/Instrument level switch.

    Aha! So you can plug a guitar directly into the 2:90!


    I have some questions about your signal chain. You said:


    Quote

    I made 8 profiles of my 2:ninety connected to a Mesa 112 Thiele cab with an old '90's EVM12L in it. I used a cheap ART Z Direct passive DI box between amp and cab. I'm sure they would sound even better with a Kemper DI or Countryman but that ART did the job.


    The signal chain went Kemper Direct Out > 2:ninety In set to Instrument level rather than line level as the signal from Kemper should be similar to a guitar hitting the amp.


    Can I conclude that you are making a direct amp profile because you put a DI between the 2:90 and the cab? I have a Kemper DI :) , so I can make a great DAP.

    The 20/20 doesn't have a line/instrument level switch. However I can use my Radial X-Amp box to do the conversion from line to instrument level.


    So my signal chain would look like this:


    Guitar --> Kemper Direct Out --> X-Amp --> 20/20 --> Kemper DI --> cab


    Now, I want to confirm I properly understand your explanation of how you implement the signal chain with the amp-only profile.


    You said that you sent...


    Quote

    the Kemper Direct Out to the Input of my Triaxis. Output 1 of the Triaxis was then fed back to the Direct In of the KPA.


    So here is your signal chain:


    Guitar --> Kemper --> Direct Out --> Triaxis --> Output 1 --> Direct In on Kemper.


    I assume you used the 2:90 profile loaded in the stack, with the Triaxis connected to the Kemper hardware loop send and return jacks loaded into an FX loop placed in Stomp D.


    Am I correct?


    I will make a profile set of my 20/20 using various volume and presence settings. I have Mesa, Fender, Ampeg and Marshall preamps available to match with the 20/20 amp profile.


    I am pretty pumped about this. I plan on using this technique to mix and match preamps with various power amp types.

    You can profile almost any preamp as long as it has a serial effects loop. Just take the loop's send output and profile that.


    Wheresthedug , can you please describe the method and hardware you used to profile the Mesa 2:90 ?


    I've profiled my Rectifier Recording Preamp, but I'd also like to profile my 20/20 by itself. I can't figure out what signal I'd send to the amp. After all, you can't just plug a guitar directly into a power amp.

    I have a question for Kemper team, it seems the imprints are tailored for the Kone, for live amp in the room tone.


    but will these imprints affect recording tone in my DAW ? will they translate as well on my monitoring system ( HS7)


    Will we be able to use a direct amp profile , and get Two parallel outputs ? one to imprint & kone for live amp monitoring , one to classic KPA CAB ( for recording )


    are there any more options ?

    Yes, you can buy a Kemper Kabinet or build your own cab and mic it. That will record the sound of Kemper Kone. You just won't get to record a DAP + cab sim at the same time.


    If you want to get both DAP + cab and Kemper Kone, you will need two Kempers. Set both up with exactly the same settings (except CAB On/Off). You could listen to the Kemper Kone while recording the DAP + cab.


    I assume you want to monitor Kemper Kone to get a more inspiring performance during recording than monitoring from a FRFR while you record. But you will not be hearing what you are recording if you are recording a DAP + cab. That could lead to unexpected results in the recording.


    If you are using a direct amp profile, why not use it with a guitar speaker cab powered by a solid state amp? Then you'd be listening to what you are recording and you'd get the 'amp in the room feel' to inspire a great performance.

    If you are not going to be mixing anything I wouldn’t bother with the sub. You don’t need 35hz for guitar tones. Also unless your room is of decent proportions and fairly well treated with lots of bass trapping a sub may actually cause more problems than it solves.

    As the owner of a small one room studio, I can attest to the fact that it is of paramount importance that one starts with a proper job of physical room treatment. Then use hardware room correction (Audyssey, Trinnov).


    At some point if you want to hear all of your mix, you will need to do these steps to get there. I understand that the OP is concentrating on recording guitar at this point. But what if he adds a synth bass line, a grand piano, or a string bass to his song at a later date. How can he possibly determine how these tracks sound together without extending his monitor low frequency response?


    Also, in order to hear anything at 45 Hz and up with any clarity, some room treatment will be required. If the OP properly treats his room and adds room correction, subwoofer integration is easy.


    Room treatment suggestions are available from many web sources. Major manufacturers also have services that help you measure your room to properly match various treatments and customize them for your room.


    You can find out about Trinnov here:


    https://www.trinnov.com/st2-pro/


    This is Trinnov's stereo studio hardware room correction hardware. I have never used it, but it gets really good reviews.


    I use Audyssey in my room. I send the stereo mix from my Apollo 8's monitor outputs via S/PDIF coaxial into a Marantz AV-8801 preamp/processor. It has excellent D/A converters and Audyssey XT32 room correction.


    The Marantz D/A conversion and analog output stage is on par with my UA Apollo 8, and bests my Apollo Silver Face (1st generation) by a noticeable amount. So I have no compunction about using a high end consumer device in my studio.


    Audyssey in the Marantz does the job of analyzing my monitors and subs (Event 20/20 + two Apogee subs) within the room. It sets the crossover point between the monitors and subs, and makes the room correction changes based on that crossover point. As a result, I have no integration issues with this combination of hardware and my small room. The result is a huge improvement.


    The AV-8801 has another advantage. It has both balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA outputs, the ability to handle multiple monitors and Hi-Fi speakers, and it comes with a remote control. The remote lets me place the AV-8801 on a shelf away from my desk so it doesn't take up desk space. I can change volume and switch monitors with the press of a button. It is in essence an excellent stereo monitor controller. Used AV-8801's sell for around $700 on eBay.


    Sonarworks Reference 4 software gets rave reviews. It is actually two products; one for headphones and one for room/monitor correction. The room/monitor correction assumes stereo monitors without a subwoofer. So, it doesn't apply to a monitor/sub setup. However, if you decide to go without a sub, it should help quite a bit.


    See it here:


    https://storeus.sonarworks.com…4-studio-edition-with-mic


    Note that it is really worth it to get Ref 4 headphone calibration if your cans are on their list. At $99 it will definitely improve your headphone monitoring.

    Nice, there's an EVM12L model in there.

    I have two EVM-12S drivers in two Thiele cabs that I built based on a set of Electrovoice plans.The 12S speakers sounded almost identical to the 12L's in a Mesa Thiele cab when I compared them. I also built an EVM-15L in a 15 inch Thiele cab from the same plans.


    I pulled the 12S drivers from an open back Fender Silver Face cab that I originally bought to use with my '68 Bandmaster. The cab was in great condition. It looks like it was made in 1972. I got lucky with the Bandmaster. It was made in February of 1968. It is a factory AB763 (Black Face) made from parts meant for '67 Blackface amps.


    The cab was smaller than a Bandmaster 2 x 12, which originally came with either Jensen or Oxford drivers and was closed back. So I bought plans for a Bandmaster cab and built one out of pine to spec. I mounted a pair of Jensen C12N drivers in it.


    I was planning on building a pair of 1 x 12 cabs with Kemper drivers. Now, if the Kemper Kone Oxford voice nails that speaker, I will need to build a 2 x 12 cab with Kemper drivers as well.


    I will instantly try a Kemper speaker in one of my cabs and compare the sound when it becomes available as a part. If the Kemper Kone nails my home built Thiele's sound, I will go with the Kemper speakers and make a 2 x 12 + 1 x 15 Thiele cab with the 12S and 15L speakers.


    What is a 2 x 12 + 1 x 15 Thiele cab!?!?


    It is two vertically stacked Thiele cabs with a slanted front on the top and a 1 x 15 Thiele cab under the two 12 inch cabs. So from top to bottom it looks like this:


    12 inch Thiele cab slanted back by 16 to 24 degrees

    12 inch Thiele straight cab

    15 inch Thiele straight cab


    All 3 speakers are 8 ohms. So I will do some creative wiring. I hope to set up the cab so I can go 2 x 12 mono and 1 x 15 mono in stereo. That would get me a 4 ohm load on the 2 x 12 cab and 16 ohm load on the 1 x 15.


    I might also get another 8 ohm 15L so I can configure the cabs as a 2 x 12 + 2 x 15 standard cab. I will design two cab bodies, and use removable baffles so I can get the best of both worlds.

    @G String, Is there any chance that OS6 will let the user use the S/PDIF ports as I/O for the X Slot? There are three reasons this would be a great upgrade.


    1. If this was implemented, then maybe you could have a second X Slot in OS6 with which you could use analog pedals via the analog I/O.


    2. I'd love to be able to connect my UA Apollo via S/PDIF so I could use it with my UAD effects without going through D/A and A/D conversion that is both unnecessary and redundant. I currently must use the analog I/O to use my Apollo with the X Slot.


    By staying in the digital domain, overall round trip monitoring latency might be lower. Of course there's no way of testing this hypothesis unless the premise is implemented.


    3. With digital I/O, audio quality will be higher.


    BTW, I am getting this to use my pedals through my X Slot:


    https://aisynthesis.com/ai-syn…-ai006-stomp-box-adapter/

    I want to hear the electric to acoustic effect too. If it comes close, but is still an obvious simulation, I think the UAD platform's Sound Machine Woodworks plugin might get it all the way. It does a really nice job of making a piezzo sound really close to the sound of a mic on an acoustic guitar.


    I'd put the acoustic sim in a stomp slot with my Apollo into the X slot running Woodworks.