You are welcome raunch. It's been such a long time ago... I've taken hundreds of profiles since then and I'm pretty sure I could take some really good ones now. I will if you guys want them! Still, hope you enjoy them!
Thanks for the ideas.
you're welcome. There's an additional trick that I will add to the main post soon.
To determine the right amount of gain to set the Kemper to, run a profile of the distorted amp (at the gain setting you wish to profile it). Even though the profile will sound like crap, as long as it goes through the Kemper will give you the right Gain amount on the gain knob. Make a note of that and you will know how to set the profile gain when refining.
I've added a new song to the OP. I had to go back and look at my notes but Planet 9 is also 100% Kemper. A few different guitars and a few of my own profiles along with some Wagener and Britt. Hope you like it!
Otro método muy cómodo es escuchar los perfiles en Rig Manager y arrastrar los que te gustan al Kemper.
Storytelling with your guitar! Awesome melodic playing, man. And production is great!
Thank you very much! I can only take credit for recording and mixing (and playing!). Mastering was done by John Cuniberti.
Thanks everyone, glad you like it!
This is a song from my album Lights and Shadows. All the guitars (and bass!) are Kemper. Hope you like it!
EDIT: I've added another song, Planet 9. 100% Kemper.
I have added audio files to the OP. I went for the most extreme noise I could get out of the JCM2000 I have sitting here. So the sound itself might not be mind blowing, but it does make a lot of noise!
While I tried to make the profile as close as possible to the actual amp, I had to do all this quickly because the Marshall is going back to its owner in 5 minutes. As all profiles, it can of course be improved and made to sound indistinguishable from the amp.
Hope this helps!
Can you post a recorded example? Thanks for the tip!
You're welcome! I'll try to post soon. I have profiles but it would be better to post 3 files: original amp, bad profile, good profile. As soon as I have a few minutes I will.
Audio Files at the end of post.
Hello everyone, this is the finalized (as much as anything in audio can be called finalized) method I have discovered to take profiles of high gain amps that are too noisy for the Kemper to profile accurately. While it's a little bit more work, you can get profiles that are as accurate as any other.
So, the main problem is that when an amp gets too noisy at high gain settings, the Kemper doesn't understand where the noise ends and the magic impulses it sends to the amp begin. The result is either a message warning you that the amp is too noisy or a mess of a profile, usually hyper compressed in the lows and completely unusable. As you back off the gain and take more profiles, you will eventually find a gain setting that allows for a good profile. Anything more than that and you start getting problems (low mid mayhem and compression are just the two main culprits, but the profile will be worthless and no amount of refining will help).
So here is my suggestion so that you can "fool" the Kemper and take the profile anyway.
1. Find the sound you want on your amp (see audio file Reference Amp) with the gain as high as you want to profile it. Don't worry about whether the Kemper will think it's too noisy. Set your amp's eq exactly as you like it at that gain setting.
2. Try to profile the amp. If everything is peachy, then why are you reading this!!?
3. If the profile is a mess (see audio file Original Kemper Profile), back off the gain gradually (make sure you are monitoring the amp). At a certain point you should hear a clear change in noise. Some upper range hiss is not a big deal. It's the lower "hum" that seems to drive the Kemper crazy. As you lower the gain, this hum will go away (most often, quite abruptly).
OPTIONAL: take note of the Gain setting the Kemper provides (even though the profile is unusable). This will come in handy later.
4. When you think the noise level is low enough, take another profile. If the profile sounds good, continue to step 5. If not, back off the gain a bit more and repeat until you get a good, dynamic profile.
5. Now that you have a good profile, give it a short, standard refining pass if needed. Usually at higher gain settings I need to give it a brief refining pass to smooth everything out.
6. Now, monitoring the amp, raise the gain to where you originally wanted it to be. Switch back and forth between Kemper and Amp and raise the gain on the Kemper until it matches the amp. Single notes sustaining or low string slight palm muting is what I use to match the perceived gain, but use what works best for you. It should become obvious with practice when the amp and the Kemper are matched.
*If you wrote down the Gain setting from the OPTIONAL part of step 3, this will most likely be the correct setting, or at least get you very close.
7. Now that the gain is matched you will notice that the amp and the profile sound considerably different. The Kemper's EQ doesn't respond the same as the amp as you raise the gain, harmonics and compression will be off, etc... So now...
8. Refine again, and this time, depending on the amp, you will have to be smart about it. Definitely a bit of power chords on the lower strings, some dynamic playing on the lows, some higher chords... Do a few profiles and you will find what works best.
9. All done! You should now have an accurate profile of the amp at the desired gain setting (see audio file Final Kemper Profile). The funny thing is, the noise level of the profile will be the same as the first profile you took at lower gain, so that's an added bonus!
While not all profiles will come out perfect, I have found the success rate to be the same as any other amp/settings. I've tried with two amps that were giving me the "too noisy" warning (JCM2000 TSL100 and ENGL Fireball) and in both cases I had great results.
I hope this helps you out if you've been having problems with the dreaded "source amp too noisy" warning.
Original Kemper Profile: https://mega.nz/#!lpFEGTgD!MNe…6Q8U3Wrug9xyy6HwzQvCSqstk
Reference Amp: https://mega.nz/#!ct9hXJRT!pKx…c4qSC13GAo2PVzQf4N4YoH-yM
Final Kemper Profile: https://mega.nz/#!o5kjgZza!LnR…SbQpMaLftRpZC894I6u4Eua2Q
How much time do you refine ?
Not much. 30 seconds or so. The idea is that when you raise the gain on the kemper, it doesn't take into account the subtleties of the gain nor the interaction of the gain with the eq. So you bring the Kemper gain up until it matches the amp, then do a regular refine so that the kemper understands the interaction between gain and eq and dynamics. I always need to give it the usual chords but also some palm muting on the 6th and 5th for it to get the extra oomph of a high gain settings on the amp.
I'm still perfecting this, but as soon as I have it down to the most efficient and streamlined way I will post the final version...
generally, the noise to signal ratio of an amp can often be improved with high quality preamp tubes, selected for their low noise levels.
I agree. But sometimes I get an amp for a few days or maybe I go to somebody's studio and find an amp i really like and "steal its soul" on the spot. Plus, some amps are just noisy.
The method above might be a bit convoluted, but I have just saved a profile that is 99% there instead of a mess of compression and mids. So in case anyone wants to try it, please let me know how it goes...
Ok, I might have a solution. i need to do some more testing but this has taken me from unusable profiles filled with flabby distortion to so accurate that I have to actually look for differences. I've searched the forum high and low and nobody seems to have tried this before so here it is if you want to give it a spin:
1. Profile the amp at the highest possible gain setting that allows for a dynamic and accurate profile
2. Record a loop of chords on the remote (or play if you don't have a remote) and then hit refine
3. As the reigning process is happening, gradually raise the gain of your amp.
4. Now raise the gain of the Kemper so that it matches the gain on the amp.
5. Refine again. You might need to refine a few times but eventually you will end up with a profile that sounds the same as your reference amp at a high gain setting.
The reasoning behind this experiment was that noise would screw up the profile at the lower volumes but shouldn't be a problem when playing at full volume. While the impulses the profiler sends go from soft to loud, amp noise does make an accurate profile impossible to get. But once that is done, my theory is that you can "teach" the profile the new gain setting in the refining process without having to worry about the noise. My first tests are encouraging...
And very long refining doesn't seem to solve it either, does it?
BTW, I should add that the Kemper does not warn me about the amp being too noisy. It takes the profile, but it's all over the place as far as sound and compression go.
Reporting back... the bass roll-off idea didn't work. As i suspected, the backgourd noise is at frequencies that are part of the guitar/cab sound. So option n2 won't work. Option 1 (profiling at lower gain and adding on the kemper) doesn't sound very good either...
But as Mental suggested, extensive refining might work. We are talking EXTENSIVE. Several minutes, with the aid of my looper. Even then, I haven't been able to make a perfect profile. I'll try more refining techniques and see what works...
As for using a noise gate pedal subtle enough to trick the kemper... if anyone could give that a try, that would be great!
Some amps are really hard to profile in the upper gain ranges. For example, I just profiled an Orange Tiny terror at insane gain levels and had no problems, but a TSL100 has been giving me a lot of problems. As you say, the main problem seems to be the noise that some amps generate at high gain settings.
With a noisy amp there is actually a pretty definite gain setting for each amp that sends the profiler into panic. Anything before that setting and the profile comes out dynamic and clear, but beyond that it's big mess of compression and the bass is all over the place. A few times i've been warned by the Kemper that it detected a noise gate when there is none!
Off the top of my head I think these would be possible solutions:
1. Profile at the limit of gain that gives you an accurate profile and then use the Kemper's gain knob to increase it. Not ideal because it will sound different than the amp.
2. I'm hoping someone can chime in if they've tried this, but maybe there are some conservative settings for a noise gate that won't confuse the Kemper and still tame enough noise to let it do its magic.
3. I will try this tomorrow: on the preamp (vintech x73 in my case), a gentle (or not so gentle) roll-off on the lows might alleviate the problem. Ideally, the roll off would be low enough not to affect the tone you are trying to capture.
If anyone has more wisdom on this it would be greatly appreciated!