Posts by Mateo11

Quote from heldal

Some reasons why the Gemini's popularity is limited:

• It is big and heavy
• The cab sim doesn't work for all kinds of tones and would need integration with the controller/pedalbord so that it can be switched on/off to work in practise. It may however be ok if your playing focuses on just a couple different sounds.
• People haven't developed ears at the back of their knees yet. I totally get the visual appeal of rectangular boxes for stacking in a backline, but why don't someone make rectangular cabinets where the interior can be angled at the musician. The Gemini II is based on a coaxial design and probably has a wider dispersion pattern than most guitar cabs, but on most stages I play the space is so cramped I'd almost have to sit on it. I'd have to slant it 45 degrees or stack it up at chest height. A speaker blowing at my feet will be annoyingly loud for the audience up front long before it is loud enough for me to hear it properly.

For me the 3-dimensional amp-in-the-room-effect has been achieved by using two wedges. Even when daisy-chained on a mono-signal those will do the job when they are aimed at you from different angles. I'm usually standing off to one side of the stage with the monitors pointing at me from the front/side and back/side with both monitors aimed somewhere between me and the center of the stage. Add PureCab and my stage-sound is better than it ever was with traditional amps. I manage with one monitor when the space is limited, and as I use multi-channel wedges (Dynacord) I often take a monitor mix (without guitar) into the second channel and adjust my guitar against that mix with the master volume on the profiler.

All very good points and I get what your saying and maybe the big difference/disconnect here from me and others is in regards to how you actually going to use the Gemini cab. In my case I don't play out and only will play it at home. So the weight issue is of no concern to me since I will not be lugging it around. IF I was playing out I doubt I would want to lug it around at that weight. (Mission on their website says 71 pounds is the weight! Musicians Friend says 51 pounds. Either way thats heavy if your carrying it gig to gig).

I agree changing the voicing of the cab from FRFR to the more GRFR for each separate profile in a set list would be hectic for live use/playing out. Then again for me I will have profiles that are preamp only for GRFR voicing on the Gemini and Merged/Studio profiles for FRFR. Not an issue for me since I am just jamming at home to walk over and turn the Empower Q dial on the Gemini for the correct respective profile.

The cab issue as a backline and being too loud for people up front but not loud enough for you to hear is again valid if your playing out live.

I think I am looking at this from a totally different perspective than those who are professional musicians playing out. I can see now why the Gemini II wouldn't appeal to some using it in a live setting.

Not that the following is directed at you in any way just a couple thoughts in general. For me I personally think its a a very cool idea from Mission to try and incorporate the FRFR and GRFR into one traditional looking cab. If it works its less gear I will have to have. (If I end up not liking the Gemini when it arrives I am going to send it back and get a DXR-10 or CLR AND a separate power amp like the Matrix GT800 and a 2x12 guitar cab. That way all the bases for ME would be covered.) Also with the Gemini the addition of the USB capabilities is a nice plus too. I like the idea of recording direct from the cab into my DAW using the sound card supplied in the Gemini. I assume Mission as a company does product research and frequent the forums and look for solutions to problems/issues/wants people are looking for in their gear. For me it ticks off a lot of the boxes I was looking for. IMO to get a 2x12 stereo FRFR system (from a respected company) in a traditional guitar cab with the FRFR/GRFR flexibility and the USB capabilities seems like a good deal to me at the price point I paid. Who knows I may hate the damn thing when it actually arrives (which could very well happen since I am picky). If so I will fall in line and get the DXR-10 or CLR and join the club with everyone

Quote from viabcroce

Mateo, provided that the range data supplied by the manufacturers are determined through the same standard (which is not always the case), those figures don't say anything about how linear the cabs are. They say how many frwquncies can be reproduced through the cabs, but not at what level (volume): ideally, this volume should (roughly) be the same for all frequencies, and this is oen of the main challenges for any builder/designer.
A note on the Gemini: provided that the flat setting is actually flat, when you start mixing with the narrower setting flatness is gone, as Ingolf wrote.
i guess that cab is not popular because of its price, and because I don't think many guitarists are after a double solution. One of the reason being that, once you tweak your sounds for one of the two, you'll have to re-tweak for the other one...
let's face it, most modeller users want a guitar cab, and don't like the linear ones. And those who decided to skip the fence and now use a linear cab (and like it) do not need a guitar cab back.

hope this makes sense

Thats a very good explanation viabcroce. For me personally I liked what the Gemini had to offer not just in that it offered a double solution but I was getting a 2x12 at that price point ($1199 on sale). Since Mission is generally highly regarded on forums (TGP, Fractal & here) I figured the cost of 2 separate active FRFR cabs from comparable well regarded companies (CLR, Yamaha, Blue Amps etc etc) would be close to the cost (or more) than the Gemini. The fact that the Gemini is a cool looking traditional cab, is stereo, has USB capabilities and has the flexibility for the double solution (if you want to use it that way) seemed (since it appealed highly to me) would be more popular. Actually maybe it is very popular because I bought the last one yesterday from Musician Friend and they were sold out of all the other available options like the 1x12 or bluetooth option. I seen on other forums dated back in November people were trying to get them but they were sold out then too. So they may be a lot more popular than I thought. I just didn't see as much chatter online regarding them as other manufactures.

Anyways your explanation was spot on and helpful.

Quote from pamplemousse

Matteo, got my answer. The passive Gemini cabs are FRFR only and do not include the EQ which is part of the amplifier. Bad news for me

Sorry to hear that

Quote from pamplemousse

got it. thanks. I guess the passive version does not have such Empower Q which is probably in the power section
however, it remains the cheapest 2*12 I have seen

Im thinking the Passive has the Empower Q as well. Not positive on that but I would email them and verify first if that is what you are looking for. Im willing to bet it does have it. That would be a good option at that price point if you already have a separate power amp or a powered Kemper. I actually think it comes out cheaper that way than if you bought the powered version.

Quote from Raoul23

I think I would defo have to test it out especially at that price aswell before I brought it to see how well my profiles translated. Does your local store have one you can try. IMO translation from one system to the next is my highest priority so I know what profiles are going to sound like

Unfortunately I have never seen them here in any Guitar shops in Nashville. It's definitely a leap of faith w.out trying in person at that price point I agree but I can return it within 45 days with Musicians Friend if i do not like. Would probably have to eat the shipping cost to return but I'm willing to try it out.

Quote from Raoul23

Agree with you totally here Ingolf. My monitoring is always my IEM's and FOH is our Yamaha DXR/DSR PA profiles always translate well from studio to here

The Gemini !! is a FRFR cab just like the Yamaha is FRFR. How would using the Gemini in place of the Yamaha be any different? I am by no means a sound engineer or pretend to know anything more than the next guy but the freq response ranges are below:

Yamaha DXR 10 - 56HZ - 20HZ
Mission Gemini- 66hz -20HZ
Atomic CLR -70HZ-18Hz

You do not have to adjust the Empower EQ on the Gemini II you can leave it as a flat 100% FRFR option if you like.

The Gemini II has a "Empower Q" switch on the back of the Gemini II and I believe the Gemini I as well. On one end of the dial it has a flat setting which is the FULL FRFR and the other end of the dial has a CAB setting which is GRFR (extended range). You can also back the dial off a little from the flat setting to add more of a GRFR traditional cab or feel (the video below describes it as warmth ...and to me it does sound warmer). By turning the dial off the full FRFR setting though you are (obviously) getting a different EQ response which is no longer true FRFR but that is that coolest feature to me. You should be able to keep your cab sims on tweak it as you like or drop the cab sims altogether and use the CAB setting like a traditional power amp cab.

Here is a link where the guy (awesome player) shows adjusting the Empower EQ

Here is another link on a guy who goes more in depth on it. Sound quality is not as good though.

I just bought one of these Gemini's II a few minutes ago. It was too intriguing to me not to try it out. If I don't like it I'll return it within the 45 days. It is 20% off right now at Musicians Friend so it was hard to pass up!

After I have it for a few weeks I'll post my impressions on it here if people are interested.

Went ahead and bought one to try out. I figure if I don't like it I can always return it within the 45 days. It was hard to pass up with the 20% off from $1499 to $1199 and it has some nice added features with USB connectivity etc that I liked.

If anyones interested I will give my impressions/opinions on it after I've had it for a few weeks and the honeymoon phase has passed.

Quote from Ingolf

@Mateo11: I hope I got you right.
I guess what i really try to say is: Eithe a cab is really FRFR and you can make it work for you at the same time - or you dont.
The moment you change the voicing of your Gemini cab to a traditional setting the FRFR idea is gone and not valid any more.

Yes definitely you are correct and understand you completely. If you did change the voicing EQ on the cab from full FRFR to the guitar cab voicing you would no longer have a true FRFR representation. That is kind of the appeal though isn't it? You can have a TRUE FRFR representation if you like or if you decide you would like to have a more traditional guitar cab voicing you would change the EQ/Empower knob on the cab and have a more traditional sound and feel. Its not FRFR at that point but it may be want you want at that moment. I guess its a "Pure Cab" setting for the actual Mission Cab. It disengages the tweeters and changes the voicing to a more guitar cab response. Just options that all.

I am in no way trying to convert someone who is full on FRFR to this idea. Its more of a post to see what others think who want to have both options available to them without buying a FRFR speaker AND a separate power amp and cab for when they want to have a more traditional set up.

Quote from Ingolf

My 2 cents: I don't care for any marketing terms any more. FRFR - GRFR???
Either a system is full range and flat response- in this case I can be absolutely sure my rigs will translate well on any PA system- or it is not.
In this case I'm chasing an ideal that is blurred and unclear.
And just for the record: PureCab has cured any 'I want more of a tradfitional cab feel' sentiment that may have survived from my pre- FRFR days.
When PC will be storable per rig it'll be perfect.

I am not sure I understand your post. I don't believe Mission engineering is using marketing terms since the cab IS FRFR. It just has the option to change the voicing/EQ (if you wish) to a more traditional guitar cab sound as well. Pure cab is awesome I use it on some profiles and some I do not. I guess my point is I have seen many Kemper Axe FX users use BOTH a FRFR like a DXR 10 or CLR and also have a separate power amp they use with a guitar cab. I thought this cab from Mission was nice because it gives you both options in one cab.

Quote from Dorrus

I tried frfr but after three gigs with them I'm going back to a guitar cab.
Most of the time I 'm using five or six profiles from clean to overdrive and my Bogner cab is much more "guitar" like compared to the harsh-trebly-jingle bells Frfr sound to me.
A lot of users like the MBritt profiles and if I'm correct, he is playing live also with Classic 80 cabs ?
I guess I'm not the only one that;s having problems with FRFR ? I can't help myself keeping on tweaking knobs instead of playing guitar .
Its not sounding bad but just more natural and more easy with a guitar cab to me...

I'm considering buying the Mission Engineering Gemini !! active 2x12 cab because it has the ability to be either FRFR or GRFR (guitar cab) OR a combination of both. I just started a thread here on this cab to get some opinions before I buy one. It seems to me to be a great option for someone (like me) who wants to get a more live guitar feel and sound but still retain as much of the FRFR (Cab Sim) capabilities as possible. You may want to look into this option. The price is steep but Musicians friend is running 20% off right now and that would make it $1199 instead of $1499 which I think is a really good deal considering its a 2x12 FRFR/GRFR system. Also has some other bells and whistles like USB connectivity (or even Bluetooth but the bluetooth option is extra $$) to your MAC/PC in case you also use BIAS or Scuffham etc amp sims. You can play it through this cab as well. Just a thought since I am looking at the same option (or similar) as you.

Seems like one of the biggest needs/wants that people (myself inc) want with their modeler is ability to have it sound and feel like a guitar cab while ALSO being FRFR and able to use the Cab sim without additional coloring from the amp or speakers. The general consensus on forums is you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you go Full FRFR with a CLR or DXR-10 or something similar and use 100% full capabilities of the Kemper with the Cab Sims (or AXE-FX IR's) OR you go with a separate power amp and GRFR extended range cab or guitar cab and get the "feel" and "amp in room sound" BUT give up the full capability of cab/IR sim use. (Even though some do run GRFR/guitar rigs with Cab sims on).

I came across the Mission Engineering Gemini II last night and it is a 2x12 FRFR system but has the capability to also be GRFR if you like. It also has the ability to blend in the two (FRFR & GRFR) TOGETHER to give you both the feel and FRFR. I don't work for Gemini nor have I even played through one but this seems to be a FANTASTIC option for those like me who want to use as much of the capabilities of the Cab sims but also gain the sound and feel of a traditional guitar set up.

The only drawback IMO I see and maybe this is why it's not as popular is the price. Its $1499 for the non Bluetooth option ( I don't see the need for Bluetooth) which puts it into a much higher cost bracket compare to the CLR and comparable FRFR systems. But for a 2x12 that can be FRFR or GRFR or a combination of both the price seems to be in line. It also has USB connectivity to your MAC/PC in case you also like to run BIAS or Scuffham you can run it through thie Gemini

This time of year with Musicians Friend running 20% off the Gemini II would only cost $1199. That has me seriously considering pulling the trigger on this today to try it out.

Am I missing anything here? Theres not as much hype etc out there on this particular cab (compare to other FRFR systems) and curious of your guys opinions on it.

Anyone have any experience with the Gemini II?

Any thoughts or opinions are welcome and appreciated before I hit the buy button!

Quote from mdeeRocks

For home use at relatively low volume, I'd look at studio monitors,a FRFRFR cab will always need higher volume to deliver the tone, just because the speaker is bigger. Do a search here and you will find what people recommend. I have a pair of Equators and they sound fantastic. Again, I don't know how my guitar sounds dry because I never play at such low volumes

Quote from viabcroce

I'd not agree with that in general.
I have no experience with 12" linear cabs used at home volume, but the CLR sound very good at 3 a.m.
All the difference I perceive when changing volume with them is just FM effect.

There is a point to make tho, and it's related to the monitor's specs.
Here follow a quotation from my next essay "JM: The Man, the Myth, the Facts" .D

So, basically, if a studio monitor has actually got better specs in terms of frequency extension (that is, if the datasheet is true), if the listener is able to properly hear very low frequencies and if the room fits, its response on the lows will be deeper. This will not be related to playback volume tho, but to the design in itself.
Of course, when it comes to only playing guitar, this deeper low end is less meaningful.

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Anyone else care to chime in on this? I've been curious about this regarding FRFR cabs. I only play at home and have a Friedman ASM-12 wedge. It seems to sound best and in its sweet spot cranked up which is not ideal for home playing most of the time. Not sure if this is the phenomena of how we perceive sound and louder just seems better or if the cab really needs to be pushed to reach it's intended full potential?

Quote from drog

I am waiting to get my hands on the new Roland JC40, it should be great with the Kemper. Right now I use a Roland KC-350 keyboard amp and my Kemper sounds incredible.

When researching the Mustang to use with a modeler like Kemper or Axe the Roland was mentioned a few times as a possible great option. I would be interested in hearing how that combo would work.

Quote from Havohej

Its not a firmware issue its a power amp issue as was found out. While it may seem that this problem is "common" its actually one of little problems the Mustangs have, so if you search about it you are sure to find a lot of people reporting they have it, making it seem like more common than it really is.

I know a ton of people that have been using Mustangs reguarly for gigging and its been rock solid for them as for me. I have the mustang III but if I search online I find lots of people talking about the fizz issue as well.

Goodluck anyhow !

Thanks man!

Quote from Havohej

Damn, do you have a V1 ?
Those have notorious power amps that fizz out...
Replacement is you only option, I hope you're under warranty.

I actually got the Mustang IV and have the absolute latest firmware on it. I just bought it like 10-12 days ago so I can still return it or get a replacement if they have in stock. It seems to be a fairly common issue so now I;m a little gun shy of getting another one like this and sounded fine at first and then developed the issue. I'm looking on positive side of things now though and glad it happened now instead of months from now when the option for return is gone.

Trouble in Paradise! I noticed tonight when playing the Kemper through my Mustang I am now getting some weird fizzy overtones on high gain profiles, I played the Mustang solo w/out the Kemper to see which one was causing the problem and it's doing it with just the Mustang. I just researched it online and looks like others have had the same issue. Some said updating the firmware fixed it for them so I updated the firmware and it didn't fix it. for me I have no idea why in the world this would just now start happening? I didn't hear this before but its very apparent to me now. May have to take her back to GC for a return or replacement. Man just when I thought I was all set....:(

Yes Yes Yes

Awesome!! Looking forward to it!

Quote from Havohej

Hey Mateo11,

The other way to disable cabs is to click on the AMP button, then press down on the wheel to goto page 2, which should have a setting for which cab you want to use. Just scroll through till cab is set to OFF.

I found that this works way better for me than changing the return loop to postfx via the settings, as that results in a huge volume drop and some tone suck for some reason.

Thanks Havohej .... I'll definitely try that out.