Posts by SonicExporer

Was that bass done using the KPA as well?

How are you generating the drums? MIDI triggering a VST, using audio loops, replacement samples triggered by a real recording of your own drums, other?

I saw in the vid there's a Creamback 65 Clean Channel, but is there also a Dirt Channel profile?

* EDIT *
I just noticed it's only a 1x12 cab, never mind. Probably need at least a 2x12 to get the right thump on a dirt channel.

Ceddy, are you using a single rig profile? And what kind of drum software if you don't mind me asking?

Is that a Steelwing T-shirt?

With digital the issues are much less of a concern than using tape back in the day, but still, when it comes to powerful rock vocalists the dynamics are just too much to go straight to track without some form of signal balancing in between. At a minimum there needs to be a good preamp, compressor and often some minor EQ before hitting the track if you want to achieve a pro quality result in the end.

Sonic

Ah... I assumed the KPA compressor FX had all the usual basic parameters but it sounds like maybe not. I'll have to look at that....

As to point 1 above, no, the signal must be compressed before going to track. It can also be done again after the fact as needed, but it must be compressed prior to tracking.

Must have compression on vocals on the way in, at least the pro singers I work with. Their voice is often so dynamic that it requires a decent pre and comp to get the signal balanced out before it hits the track.

@Michael_dk , why do you say "you won't be able to adjust the compressor parameters to the performance/voice/mic/etc. if it's just a profile." ? I was planning on using the compressor FX. Why wouldn't that work? .... Or were you referring to a vocal chain profile that already had compression pre-defined as part of the profile?

Well, one main question is how would you get a dynamic mic input into the KPA? I'm guessing the only place we can be sure there is a mic preamp is on the return that is also used for profiling. I was just guessing when I suggested using a Loop FX with that mic input. Even if that would work, I'm not sure what quality preamp is in the KPA, or if the preamps on most home studio DAW interfaces would be just as well, or better. I would suspect however if the KPA is to understand distorted guitar amp signals then the preamp must be pretty good quality.

Reamping isn't a solution in my eyes. Rock vocals require at least two key elements before the signal hits the track - preamp and compression.

Sonic

Quote from G String

You cannot use the Profiler to replace an "expensive vocal chain". It is not designed for that purpose, or replace such preamps or to operate with microphones.

So there's no way to run a dynamic mic just for using the KPA as a preamp and compressor, maybe some EQ, and then SPDIF back out to DAW? I know it's not designed for that purpose and I certinaly don't expect it to compete with a real high-quality vocal chain, but it would sure make home recording a lot easier if the KPA could handle a simple dynamic mic and some basic signal balancing when recording, take some of the strain off the DAW and not have to rely on outboard gear any more than necessary.

Hmmm..... I'm not the most adept at DAW software routing yet. I wonder if an alternative might be a hybrid approach? Run mic to preamp on the DAW interface, then route the signal to SPDIF Out into the KPA for compression and whatever other minor FX and then SPDIF Out of KPA back to DAW for recording. So the KPA would become more of an outboard "real time" vocal effect processor. Might this work, any thoughts?

Quote from Dimi84

A note about fret buzz: are you comparing kpa through headphones or monitors vs amp through cab

Doesn't matter whether mains, near fields or headphones, same disparity (relatively speaking) of fret buzz between KPA and actual source. The KPA seems hyper sensitive to input. I noticed this early on. This isn't necessarily a bad thing overall, but as far as fret buzz goes it seems thus far to be a negative. I need to do more testing, along with trying to get to the bottom of why I'm getting the phasing/alias/drunk mosquito sound in the high end at times in tracks.

Quote from pacocito

It's not a matter of room acoustics what some of us are identifiying. Last week, I did a profiling session of my amp in a studio and the profiles were really good and close to the amp but there was that raspiness/congestion/whatever at the high mids. The studio engineer called it "a phase issue". If this issue could be fixed, the KPA would be perfect to me.

If you are able to get two short clips from the studio, one with the real amp and one using the profile, and send them to Support at Kemper in a ticket describing what you just explained it would be timely and possibly very helpful toward encouraging Kemper to have their engineers look into fixing this issue.

Can the KPA be used for an external vocal processor just as with guitar? Go passive mic direct in somehow (XLR in on rear?) and use as a preamp and compressor, then SPDIF back out to DAW to avoid any extra DAAD conversions??

I searched and found a few threads but didn't come away with anything that felt definitive. Here is what I think I learned....

- Apparently some people have done what I describe.
- I'm assuming the XLR input on rear can be used? And a Loop FX must be enabled to do so (with 100% setting)?
- There are apparently some vocal preamp profiles from R.U.Sirius and a few others, however it is unclear to me how these were created.

Any guidance and/or explanations appreciated. It would be great if I could drop the expensive vocal chain of ancient tube preamp, distressor and other things and was instead able to rely on the KPA to get a reasonable quality vocal result.

Sonic

Quote from Dimi84

I would probably call that the "cocked wah" character (if we are talking about the same thing) I most often try to dial out as much as possible. The frequencies present in many profiles bring out subtle overtones you may get from a cocked wah pedal or a tubescreamer on higher tone values.
There can also be some aliasing (which you may be referring to as well).

I don't think the cocked wah is in play here. That usualy comes from dropping some low end and altering the midrange frequencies more than anything else. What @drog is referring to is the strange harmonic content in the KPA tones in trying to emulate a tube amp. That content is a large part of what is perceived as the gain structure, and something isn't right with the KPA's representation IMO. I don't know if it's a calculation issue, or lack of some order harmonics, or other. But something isn't right IMO. It instead produces a rasp, or sometimes referred to almost as fizz, just doesn't sound natural and helps contribute to a less than real amp sound IMO. It may also be responsible for the congestion.

Quote from Per

If you're experiencing a greater sensitivity to e.g. fret buzz then that's down to how the patch is working. High levels of compression would account for this, check the amp block compression and that you're not e.g. having a boost in front of the amp block from a green scream or a compressor.

It's entirely possible you're raising gain rather than raising volume, the classic bedroom guitarists problem. It doesn't sound loud enough so they dime the distortion because it fills out the frequencies and makes things sound bigger, more full, but distortion works clipping and creating natural compression. If you're doing this then you need to turn up your speakers and turn down the gain. Then you need to play with your input sens settings on the Kemper, theyr'e designed to balance volume between clean and dirty signals, contrary to how a real amp works where changing gain changes volume, the Kemper can via those two controls be made to keep volume, or even get quieter. Poorly adjusted they could result in an overtly lively amp response, too much sensitivity for a guitarist used more to a Marshall rather than a Mesa.

Hmmm....I will look into this further. I do have Distortion Sense at 3.0, but keep the gain in most profiles around 5 or 6, so nothing is jacked up. And no other boost stomps, unless just to color with a boost at most +1. Compression is usually off in amp stack. I noticed this fret buzz sensitivity especially with the bass guitar, massive difference between the SansAmp and the KPA. I might profile and test if I have time to see how much is a direct result of the KPA and what aspects of the KPA may be contributing. Also have noticed this with guitar as well, but not as prominent, just extremely sensitive and sometimes strange random "sounds" in the very high frequency ranges (for lack of a better explanation). Not sure if this is "ghost notes" I see some people refer to?

Quote from chrismilne

I never got a reply yet from Support.

I didn't receive much of a meaningful response anyway when I tried to raise tone concerns and toget guidance on profile/refining technique.

Quote from chrismilne

I'm pretty sure Sinmix posted on many topics and showed the differences that he hears in his own profiles, and others have posted clips of the issues they experience or dislike. No one (that i know of) is here to bash the Kemper they want it to improve.

I hear certain things, like the "congestion" sound as described here, as well as some slight unnatural sounds with low/mid gain profiles or even rolling back my volume knob on some types of amps. I also think after a while the distortion character seems to sound the same between all amps (not exactly of course but as though they are built from the same preset). The other thing is it tends to push some midrange frequencies that cause a "cocked wah" type of sound in a lot of profiles (free and commercial). I've listened to nearly every clip from every popular commercial vendor so I know what i'm listening for, i've bought many profiles and this is present in nearly every one to varying degrees. I think the biggest issues are Marshall sounds and power tube distortion that tends to exaggerate the "congestion" sound.

That being said it blows away (for me) any other modeler i've used (haven't used an Axe FX)...but it is WAY more expensive too.

Exactly, improvement is the hope.

Fret buzz is something to add to the list of tone concerns, along with congestion and rasp (gain structure). Something about the way the KPA processes the signal is making it hyper sensitive, such as to fret buzz, in a way I'v never, ever heard before. It's quite overdone. Maybe that's a clue and related to the other tone concerns, hard to say.

Quote from Dean_R

meanwhile there are countless other commercial and non commercial Kemper users have produced indistinguishable profiles from the real amps they captured.

For some styles maybe but for those who know what to listen for you can hear the KPA "signature" in many profiles involving gain, and some not even involving much gain. I have yet to hear hardly any (IMO near zero) profiles that do the 80's cranked Marshall style correctly. Sure, lots of profiles and many claims but almost zero actually achieve it. The closest I've heard so far involved either EQ matching or taking 2 very different profiles and dual tracking them.

Herd mentality doesn't make it so. EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES. You might want to read it.

And as Dimi said, this isn't an absolute all or nothing. But there are absolutely issues that need resolving if the KPA is to properly compete with the sound of a real amp IMO.

Sonic

The irony to that image is it implies the KPA has more sack than a real amp.

I think the fact Sinmix is a commercial seller and yet still rightly critiques the KPA for it's tonal shortcomings speaks volumes to his integrity for tone, and also as a person. How anybody could actually distort that into being a negative attribute is beyond me.

With the KPA, there is congestion, there is rasp, there is thin solo notes. No matter how many times fanboys try to deflect otherwise, it does not change these facts. Some profiles more than others, some people not bothered by it, others very much so. To my knowledge, support has not provided any profiling or refining guidance beyond what is in the manuals.

Quote from Dimi84

Is this due to moral reasons though or just something you wouldn't like to do?

Neither, I just prefer not to risk inviting any headaches or liability into my life at my age.