Posts by adywhittell

Another track this time with Pascal Allaigre providing a solo

Iliad - Another Dimension

Quote from Deej09

Hi and welcome..glad you are getting great results from the kemper.

You may want to put the band info here on the forum:

Link your music

That's only for registered users. My son (the other guitarist) bought and registered the kemper and he hates going on forums.

I have only posted when we were having issues with the Focusrite we use (the negative stuff).

But now we are in a position where we have some cool sounds from the home studio using the Kemper.

One of the huge benefits for us as band is to invite world class guitarists to do 'guest solos'

On the track below we invited Ben Wilshire (YouTube shredder - incredible guitarist) to do the solo.

He just sent the raw tracks and we put it through Kemper and it sounds great.

This our new track 'Through The Cursed Mists' (11 minute epic) - solo at 8.40

Iliad-Through The Cursed Mists (with solo)

We have album 2 recorded and have started album 3 (album 1 finished but not released yet)

Are there shredders on here willing to do 'guest solos' you know of.

@Farko63 We definitely have SPDIF cable (better quality ones coming today)
@JSB Headphones are Sennheiser HD449
@Gforce guitar We're a bit tested out at the moment but great idea.
@Monkey_Man Glad you like the material and took the time to listen to other tracks. It's all about the music after all

Album 2 has even stronger material (neither released yet):-

Iliad - The Poisoned Machine (inspired by Exodus - Deliver Us To Evil)

The amazing thing about the kemper is we can record tracks on a home studio to much higher standard than was possible years ago.

Not sure if anyone has heard of Spiral Architect but the singer and guitarist are guesting for us on album 2.
As is shredder Frankie C who won the TV shred contest judged by Alex Skolnick.
I'm sure there are far better guitarists than us on here.
But we are pinching ourselves that we can get guests like that. Kemper rules!
We just take a raw track from a guest, re-amp guitar through Kemper and we have a world class solo.
What a great time to be a muso.

ps We need 2 more solos for album 1 if anyone is interested.

This mix is sounding a LOT better

Iliad - Fallen Angel (New Mix)

Not perfect but sounding a lot better than the first post. Helped by knowing the tools we have.

Apologies if earlier posts have confused the matter.
To answer the issue comparing the headphone output to spdif, we listened to the feedback and thought mybe it was clouded by some effect included with that output.
So the test today we made sure it was dry for both outputs.
Hence this brought us to the actual conclusion.

We do test the exported track on lots of systems.
But the fact is the mix was simply sounding a bit shit.
We have tweaked the mix via headphones via the focusrite I must admit (I know you should use monitors which we do have)
But my wife and younger son insisted we didn't blast through monitors at 11pm at night for some selfish reason

But now we know what we know where we are and can bypass the focusrite and can get suitable profiles that sound better in the mix

We'll post a new mix shorty so I can at least finish the thread on a positive note.

The experience picked up from this post alone will mean that for any future issues, we'll be able to explain ourselves a bit better without sounding like a complete inexperienced newbie, We've learnt loads more about how the Kemper works.

We tried to do a fairer test by making sure all effects were removed and we recorded headphone vs SPDIF again.
But we noticed there wasn't much difference again with all effects removed.

But headphones through Kemper STILL sound great.

HEADSCRATCH

We had a hunch.
Lets bypass focusrite and record headphone output through the computer mic.
We played back through headphones on computer (NOT Focusrite).
Now we're getting tones like the kemper headphone output.
We then listened to the other samples we had done on computer headphone output and Focusrite headphone output.

So conclusion:-

The headphone output of the Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 sounds like SHIT.

I always thought of Focusrite as flagship when it comes to audio devices (used throughout the world in studios etc) (250 quid - Ok you can pay much more but the computer headphone output sounds better)
So this conclusion has astounded us.
Obviously the mix of the track I uploaded as an example clearly isn't up to scratch as we're mixing via monitors and headphones through the focusrite.
So no issues with Kemper, Cables or Cubase.
Thanks to all who have contributed.
We'll try and post a track when we are happy with the mix and sound.

We'll also remember to listen via Kemper when sampling new profiles from now on.

Yeah we turned off all effects in the end.
Still no comparison.
Cables delayed by Amazon until Sunday so can't try em yet.
We also tried another audio device (ESI U24XL) and wasn't as good on that as well. (analog)

There was no effect on apart from Space which was about 3.7
SPACE Headphone Only was not On.
We set SPACE to 0 in output and added SPACE as an X module.
just listening to stereo out for both headphones and SPDIF the sound is drastically different.

I agree it's a setting but my son locks his computer when he goes to work so I can't check Scarlett or Cubase settings during day (probably doesn't want me to check his internet history lol)

I'll do much more thorough tests/recordings if cables don't do it an settings all look ok.

@schreckmusic We bought the SINMIX Mesa Boogie DR2 profiles and they are fantastic for metal (Well through the headphones they are )
We also got Josh Middleton's and ChopTones profiles which are also godly metal tones.

I didn't know he was from support but I do now. Those words gave me great hope. I think the fact Kemper sounds so amazing via headphones is the reason for my frustration

Support have also asked me to try another audio interface so will try that tonight.

However Focusrite 18i8 Scarlett is not the cheap end of the market so I doubt it's that.

New quality cables being delivered by Amazon any time now as well. Still hoping it's that really.

Sorry dude I'm not giving up on this.
The difference between the analog and spdif is not as great the difference between spdif and headphone output.
I posted that as a response to being asked why SPDIF is essential.
It's a ridiculous situation being forced to record via the headphone socket.
Someone stated above the sounds being recorded SHOULD BE IDENTICAL to the Kemper Headphone sound which is amazing. I mean TONAL PERFECTION
The headphone output isn't 'fluffed up' to sound better than the actual output as also stated in the thread.
We've created a support call and hope we can get more luck from the Kemper support guys.
I don't want to go on and on about this but surely the way a forum works is 'Guy asks for suggestions on how to solve a problem'
Try it. If it works then great, we all move on. Believe me we are frustrated beyond words and want to move on.
But I haven't tried anything yet that means we hear an identical sound to the Kemper headphones in Cubase.
I'm after a 100% solution that means I can use the Kemper how it's designed to be used. Not a botch job.
If I'm right you are saying 'It's near enough. that'll do' (Neither of those examples are as good as the headphone output)
I'm hoping the answer from support won't be 'F*ck it. That's near enough.'But hey, we appreciate all input.
ps I've just linked this thread as the support call. Got a reply already which we are working one (within a day. Pretty good)

Burkhard A few days ago we compared the Analog and SPDIF outs earlier and we concluded they were almost identical. But no we are not commited to SPDIF - Most of the re-amping tutorials seemed to use SPDIF.
However we also recorded SPDIF vs Analog last night and it came out like this:-

SPDIF first. Analog Second. Analog is fuller.

SPDIF vs Analog

We have ordered some XLR cables and we will compare to the headphone out.
It's re-assuring for someone to say the sound should be identical.

Regarding the space I already said I have added that to the X slot to exaggerate the sound and sound is still miles better through headphones than sound going through Scarlett (when listening in stereo).
We also removed 'SPACE Headphone Only'
If the clocks are going out of synch and Kemper is the master what can I do about that?
Does that indicate poor quality/too long cables?

I set SPACE on output to zero
I then added space in X slot instead (a suggestion from another post)
We then output via Stack and still the sound getting to Focusrite is chalk and cheese to the sound from headphone which I can assure you is gobsmackingly gorgeous!!!!
This is so frustrating.
We are hearing our PERFECT metal sound and finally seeing the deal with Kemper and just how good it can sound.
But we can't record the sound we are hearing. (I won't be recording the headphone output lol)
SO CLOSE!!!!

We are so grateful for the suggestions.
We have 2 albums to re-amp when we get this right.
Guest solos are also being provided by Nicolas Alberny (Gorod - he's amazing) and Ben Wiltshire (Anderton's music) - that lad knows TONE and finally Aaron Beeken (Synaptik).
So you can see we want the best sound possible. (As would anyone else of course having paid 1500 for an amp)

Ok so we played and recorded some rough guitar with 3 metal riffs. (Ibanez with EMGs using a MB DR2 profile)
Each riff is played twice and recorded in mono.
The first is SPDIF.
The second is the headphone out into Focusrite analog socket.

The headphone output has way more depth.

We've normalised the sound so they are roughly equal in loudness.

Headphone vs SPDIF

That's why we know something is ridiculously wrong in our set up. SOMEWERE?????

We are getting new high quality SPDIF cable tomorrow. Maybe it's that?

Quote from VoodooJef

If you're using RCA instead of bona fide SPDIF there will be problems, however minor they may seem.

I bought these:-
Digital SPDIF Audio/Video Coaxial Cable - 1,5M - RCA to RCA gold-plated connectors with shielding and nylon

Yeah we are going to try that tonight

We'll also try and recording/listening in cubase when using Master Stereo. We always initially hear with no effects (which actually should enhance the sound so should in theory sound better)

If anyone's remotely interested this is another track which SHOULD be crushing with our chosen Mesa Boogie DR profile but just isn't - This one has a solo (pre recorded by Theodore Ziras).

Iliad - Age Of Darkness

I also just added SPACE to the X effects channel just to exaggerate the sound.

Again sound from Kemper completely blows away the sound sent via the Scarlett.

Bought new gold plated RCA cables just in case and to eliminate that cause. Should come tomorrow.

???

Quote from Monkey_Man

... or if the recorded tone still sounds like ass it'll indicate that the issue lies with the interface, it's settings or your DAW.
Not possible you've got a trim plugin or similar set to mono instantiated on the default amped-guitar track?

How about possible bleed from another mixer channel into the amped-guitar track's bus?

We record 2 raw and amped tracks (using GIT/STACK). and pan amped tracks L/R. No Trim plugins. Pretty sure there is no bleed.
When we are listening and comparing tones ( via Kemper/Focusrite), we make sure both are set to stereo. We only use GIT/STACK when recording.
We're even making sure when we mix/master/export we listen to the track on 3 or 4 different systems from BOSE to stereo system, and even play on the car stereo.
So we know it's not just proximity of headphones that is the difference here.
I've just listened to another vid which tests 10 Metal Tones and they sound killer and they use the same Scarlett interface wit no EQ.
Apart from the SPDIF settings there isn't much you can change on the Sarlett. Mainly just routing.
Also for basic recording there isn't much more we can teak in Cubase.
We obviously use compression, EQ, reverb VSTs etc when mixing.
Space Headphones Only is turned OFF. I can see difference on Scarlett when space level changed.
It's like we need a magic setting 'Make SPDIF output sound like Kemper Headphone output'
Is it possible to record headphone output to record some proof so you guys can hear what we are talking about?
I think we'll also enter a support call with the Kemper guys.

We just compared the Analogue signal with the SPDIF one and they are identical. (BOTH not as good as via the Kemper headphones)

So on the monitors/headphones the signal just seems sub standard to the sound via the Kemper headphone socket (routed via the focusrite).

And it's obviously not cables because of the above test.

And further to this when we do the actual re-amping itself it still sounds better when we listen on the Kemper.

We'll try a few of the suggestions from Wheresthedug reamp sens, SPDIFvolme etc and see if that makes a difference.
With regards the tracks we record 2 guitar tracks and pan left and right (both the from the right SPDIF channel - we also record the raw SPDIF signal just purely for re-amping).
We tried quad tracking guitars but it got a bit muddy. (maybe playing wasn't tight enough )

Seems really simple doesn't it. Record EXACTLY the 'non fluffed up' sound we are hearing via the Kemper headphones

Oh and GForce guitar, the singer is John Knight from Prog Metal Synaptik (You can hear him on Spotify).

He loves his metal and it was he that prompted us to get a better tone as he said the guitar tone was lacking something and wasn't 'crushing enough'.

We had it 'appearing to crush' but all we'd done is massively boost the lodness of the track with an L2 maximiser which made it sound heavy but killed the overall dynamics etc.