Posts by Dimi84

About "cheaper, small kemper unit that plays back profiles" -- I had asked kemper many *many* years ago about that, before kemper was released.

Their response back then was that removing profiling function would not lower the cost of the unit substantially at all. But perhaps in 2019 more powerful hardware at cheaper pricing could allow for a profile player that is indeed substantially cheaper, even if not due to lacking profiling function.

My own interest in a "unit that just plays profiles" died quick when I first begun testing what was available online, realizing how much pickups, guitars, tuning, taste matter when it comes to profile creation (not referring to profiling accuracy here)... After that, I hardly thought of a portable player again. Live I mostly used tube amps anyway.

But.... IF it was possible to create an absurdly portable unit, at a much, much lower price, whether it has profiling or not, I could see myself buying it if I was gigging a lot. I'd use kemper to make profiles and then load them to the portable unit.

Quote from Nikos

I am so glad I went for my second KPA instead of the AX8 some weeks ago..I already decided to go for the latter but something kept me from doing it.Well..

The Kemper is a tool.The rest are digital gadgets to be replaced with the next digital gadgets.. I feel for all the AX8 guys.They must feel screwed.I know I would..

"Digital gadgets"... as opposed to kemper.. which is a tool instead.. right...

If I was playing more, I'd definitely considering buying this new unit. It's running Ares and seems quite convenient.

Quote from don1960lp

It's all right here folks.

https://www.newyorker.com/maga…cts-dont-change-our-minds

Not that kemper users are bereft of bias. Some can hear, in some random show, on a youtube recording, just how bad axe sounds -- disregarding all the examples to the contrary -- while being charitable as heck when it comes to their own device. Same from the "other" camp, or parts of it.

And I think (not accusing you of that) that at times prescribing bias to people is also largely determined by one bias or another. It gets quite comical at times. Everybody have been paid by aliens -- if for whatever reason they still use amps, other products.

Now if Friedman narrowed down his critique or made it more clear just what he means, there's a big chance I'd more or less agree with him (likely not about the piracy part though) even if the issue is about "feel" with similar monitoring, amplification, ect, ect.

To me, EQ controls of kemper feel closer to some post-EQ applied in daw.

I've had cases where they've helped quite a bit, especially using other people's profiles (which is rarely).... But typically I don't touch them at all. If I want to alter eq I'll just use a studio EQ in kemper and target what I want.

About feel: imo if A has the exact same sound as B, not just as "someone's aural experience", but other, existing properties, so will the "feel" be the same (not considering factors irrelevant to profiling accuracy, such as.. Seeing the amp and ending up with "more feels" because if it) . We may include "latency" here too.

Considering this, "kemper doesn't feel the same as the amp" feels too vague of a statement. Are we taking about the signal kemper gives out? Differences in amplifying that signal? Monitoring?

Because if I take a friedman amp and run it through load box all that "cab mojo" will be gone too.

Does that in turn mean that profiling is accurate to the level where, even with a comparison that narrows down things properly, there's no difference anyone can perceive, prefer, not prefer?

Well, that's another topic.. And these things are testable, on some level, with known methods .... But from what friedman has said in this and other interviews, I don't know what he believes exactly.

Quote from don1960lp

Just to clarify: for a DI clip I simply shut off the CAB while recording? And it should be 100% dry in front?

When I say "DI" I mean just the guitar signal. If you just disable the cab you'll retain the amp Sim.. and whatever coloration is left, too, if it's a studio profile. I believe the manual describes how to record a DI as based on what output you use.

Sharing DI for others to re-amp could prove useful.

I'm definitely ridin' the tube train in that sense.

But it really depends on the amp, what one wants to achieve, what is our barometer in terms of differences caused and in terms of how big they are said to be. In plenty of cases, yes, an audience may not care -- or it's hard to tell the differences in a mix with random transitions. In other cases, the difference may be enough to consistently hear.

All that said, I've done tests where we couldn't tell the difference in recording.... But playing through the amp? I'd spot the tubes correct each time. Not only that, but I had pretty strong preferences as well. Getting locked up in studio with a few "tubes don't matter bruh haha u golden ear boi or what?!" friends did allow us to conduct a few tests way back, focused on audio too.

Long story short: I do think tubes can matter. Some may perceive more of a difference in "feel" than others ("feel" not being entirely disconnected from "sound" either). It's also somewhat difficult to generalize about what effect a particular set of tubes will have on one amp vs another, and what may be needed to achieve a desired end result, relatively speaking. Experience sure helps.

That said, I find that people may at times have unrealistic expectations. The amp I've used the most during past years, mostly due to its flexibility, is a laney ironheart. It's a pretty "stiff" and "dry" sounding amp. It's tough to get it sounding fluid without involving some kind of diode clipping along the way.

Well -- experimenting with pre-amp tubes definitely helped. Did the amp turn into a peavey triple xxx? No, and there's no way it would have, not with any preamp/power amp tube combination... But I was able to coax out just a little bit more of a "fluid" feel. And again I could tell the difference consistently in "feel" tests. It wasn't just a "well just a bit different" thing either; I much preferred the amp with a particular tube set-up.

And of course amp settings matter as well A difference between power tubes may become more obvious at one volume stage vs another.

All that said, of course judgement about "what matters" are highly personal. No issues with someone thinking a difference tubes doesn't matter to them, whether they perceive it and don't mind, or don't perceive it at all. But the same goes the other way around too. Someone may care more about tubes -- and it's not always just "irrational".

Quote from don1960lp

Definitely not a guitar issue. Unplugged you don't hear the buzzy rasp. Plus I've played at least a dozen different ones through it with the same issue. Again, I've tried everything in front or behind the unit and eliminated everything except the KPA. Have read and re-read the manual and have triple checked all settings.

Yea, I wouldn't think the guitar is likely to blame -- it's just that I'd expect to hear a similar effect when guitars are set up as described. I don't know what profiles were used exactly, but sounds quite bizarre.

Quote from don1960lp

https://soundcloud.com/don-belanger/test

On laptop speaker, this sounds weird to me.... a bit reminiscent of what I'd expect when someone's guitar action is way too low and strings are smacking all around the frets, without enough room to vibrate, resulting to a "sitar" type of sound. I cannot reamp atm, but perhaps someone here could help by doing so to see how different their kemper sounds with the same profile used (plenty of good free ones) and your DI.

Amazing playing, the feel! Had to grab a guitar asap to try and copy the lick at 1:01-1:04. I'll sure check the vibrolux profiles you've uploaded on rig exchange, as well.

Quote from DeeBoughton

Caveat, I've had my KPA for a few weeks, and am far from an expert with it. However, one of the things that I have noticed playing it with IEM's is that it does not have the same feel as a tube amp. I can get feedback from it, without standing next to a roaring cab, and I can get "bloom" from it by increasing the sag in the amplifier section. Neither feels the same as my actual amps, and I can't really explain why. The other thing the I've noticed is in gainier profiles the bass and treble do not act the same as they would in an actual amplifier. At least at this very young stage in my Kemper education it seems that the treble is way too present and crisp and that the bass doesn't sound or act the same way as a cranked amp. Typically with my amps, when I run them dimed, I have to turn down the bass at the very least, and sometimes add treble. It's like there is a different resonant frequency.

I haven't run my KPA through good monitors at loud volume yet, so we'll see how that changes my mind.

Sure, but then the issue is more so with IEM vs using guitar amp with tube amp?

Yea, then the "feel" will be super different for the vast majority of people. But using tube amp and only monitoring via IEM shouldn't be that different, not considering cab interaction, and assuming kemper would profile that tone well enough. Also If you run Kemper through a good power amp and cab you are likely to get much of that "amp feel" back, I believe, especially with the right profiles.

But yes, I don't know what Friedman meant exactly.

When I talk of "feel", I typically mean profiling an amp right there and monitoring profile and source through the same gear. It just narrows down whatever differences to judging the quality of profiling in terms of emulating the source tone. Otherwise, the issue is not exclusive to kemper but more about monitoring and perhaps amplifying a signal too.

Quote from ehabBar

I think Kemper knows how the amp would react at the current gain level and below. Also I wonder if it’s better to use a high output pickup when profiling because any other pickup used later on with the profile will be less gainy. Therefore it will not be loading the input as the original pickup used for profiling.

I really think it makes sense to test these things by profiling amps. Neither of the above have been my experience. I don't mean to be patronizing or keep repeating the same, just think it's the best way to narrow down issues Cheers

Quote from MementoMori

Obviously nobody here was there when I discussed this issue with Joe Morgan, but judging by some of the insinuations about my stance on things, they'd probably be surprised at some of the things I said. I just don't feel an obligation to express that "I'm one of you, not one of them" because the core issue and merits each argument stands on is all that's really important. People shouldn't have to qualify their thoughts to cater to any sort of "tribal" mindshare so long as they're not trying to instigate with nefarious intent.

Absolutely people shouldn't have to.

Quote from DeeBoughton

He said that the Kemper does not have the feel of the real amp and does not interact with the guitar in the same way. One takeaway here. Mr. Friedman believes the Kemper sounds like his amps, it just doesn't feel like his amps.

Good post -- only as a side note, I can't seem to understand how (perhaps aside from latency) something can "have the same sound" but "feel different" assuming same monitoring. If we only view sound as a metaphysically subjective experience, as an experience one is having and exists only in his mind, and that this negates nearly anything metaphysically objective "about this experience", yes.... However in terms of otherwise measurable properties the popular distinction, even if useful in some ways, seems a bit bizarre at times. But I don't know if he was referring to the whole "cab + tube power stage" vs monitors type of bonanza.

Quote from MementoMori

Totally agreed, and we of course don't all agree on what those ethics are, how we feel about them, and to what degree we take them. But any good, fruitful discussion about such a topic should include honest representation of where each perspectives ethics come from.

Perhaps not an "entirely" separate discussion, imo, at least in so far as considering the connection between law and ethics (and that brings into the ethics of that connection too) but I agree with the overall sentiment for sure.

From my perspective, Mementomori has tried to illustrate part of why -- and possibly -- some amp makers feel the way they do. It's not as if Friedman sat down for an hour to explain to detail what his arguments and thoughts are.. not that this totally should be the "end of it"; and it could be argued he should explain more, provided the strength of the claim.

Still, to my perception, when this is the case, it's probably charitable to try and arrive at some further understanding.

This doesn't have to mean some "anti-kemper" bias on one's part or that someone just flat out thinks "kemper is piracy", depending on what this means exactly. (And it's possible that something is not piracy in a strict legalistic sense, but nonetheless can be morally problematic for some of the same reasons piracy is. It's even possible we'd want to extend a legalistic concept of piracy. These are complex issues as I'm sure people here understand).

In fact, I would think that engaging in the above is essential when it comes to even figuring out where we stand to begin with, how likely we are to hold "sound' views ourselves, pla pla. And then a separate reason: considering such a thread can end up in a kind of witch hunt that perhaps encourages even more "distancing" it's good to see an effort towards understanding.

Surely that goes both ways -- and I'd hope Friedman and other amp makers who think similarly, to the level they may, go a bit deeper into this topic and think through things more IF and where such an effort is lacking. Reactionism wont help much when it's indeed what happens. And yes, there's moral considerations about public rhetoric too. Most certainly.

Not that the devices you mention may not improve a given tone nonetheless, of course.

In other words: pickup A into amp with preamp gain at 8/10 and particular settings may sound great. But hot pickup B into the same set up -- real SET up -- may push the amp in a relatively different way. It's not even just about "distortion level", at that point, imo, but other meaningfully separate tonal characteristics. Of course this depends on how the amp works and how we construct our concepts.

Now if the profile is ideally faithful to the "amp at that setting" and reacts much he same way, it should reflect the "poop" tone you'd get with the hot pickup into the real source tone at the profiled settings. But... reducing distortion sens, at that point, would reduce distortion level while these other, meaningfully-separate-from-distortion characteristics will still be retained on some level.

And these may not work in your favor.

Then again, it's also possible that you like how the profile (WITH kemper gain/distortion sens reduced) of amp at 10/10 sounds like compared to real amp tone at 7/10 or profile of that setting, considering you'd be maintaining some of the "character" of the amp at the higher preamp level, but ending up with less distortion... In fact, I've had quite a few cases like this myself.

But imo this can be more complex when pickups are quite different, relatively speaking For me, all the more reason to profile amps. And surely I think the above can be relevant in the whole "what kemper's missing" discussion in terms of narrowing down things.

Quote from ehabBar

I think the buffer helps unify different pickup outputs into something that doesn’t clip the Kpa input in a harsh way. I have a less Paul with very hot pickups that sounds like shit on all my kemper profiles (commercially bought). I almost swapped the pickups on the guitar because it was unusable with any kemper profile. It clipped the input in a very harsh way. I tried decreasing distortion sens as recommended by kemper but still it didn’t sound right. Now when I use this guitar with the buffer it’s like night and day. Actually now I don’t really have to worry about different guitar pickup outputs. All the pickups I have are useable with all the profiles I have on the kpa.

Reducing distortion sens is typically not the same as reducing the preamp gain on the real amp though. That can be a good or bad thing, depending on what people are after.

That said, the point would be that without profiling a set up right there, a set up that works with your pickups, giving you the intended tone, it seems difficult to know if kemper's input is to be to blame in regards to reacting differently compared to the amp (while keeping distortion sens to 0 too).

The commercial profiles were probably made using quite different pickups to yours. It may be these real source tones also suck pretty bad with the hot PUs, but that setting these amps differently, for your pickups and desired gain level, EQ, even micing, would yeald awesome tones.. And that this would translate to the profiles too.

That's part of why it makes sense to profile, imo.

Quote from ehabBar

The only thing I compared was the buffer in and out of the signal chain. And it does change the feel in a positive way imo. I think the main issue is the interaction between the pickup and the input stage.

I think if you profile your own amp then use the profile on the kpa, the result maybe the same even the same feel might be copied because all the other variables are unchanged.

The problem arises when you use a different pickup or guitar. Something gets lost somehow.

Typically I set up a rig for a particular guitar and purpose.

Switching guitars.. Especially pickups.. It's enough to ruin whatever mojo was there, perhaps surprisingly often.

But that's quite similar between the analog source tone and profile.

If I shoot a profile with a tone set to do the mojos with a paff PU and a les paul tuned to E flat with 10s..

Then expect a JB loaded strat to "work" with that profile.. It may not. But neither would the original source tone.