Posts by MementoMori

Quote from don1960lp

Pretty certain we all agree that anyone who buys a piece of gear, knowing full well that they are going to use it in some beneficial manner and then return it for a full refund - is a 100% AAA-Grade douche-bag.

It's a seedy part of retail, but almost inevitable. Doing so obviously has an adverse effect on the retailer which can have an adverse effect (cost) on the manufacturer in returns/repairs/restocking items at a sharply reduced margin. Some rationalize that both of these parties "have more than enough money" to absorb these expenses, but everything has a reaction and invariably the consumers are left to foot the bill in the end, usually in the form of price increases.

Beyond the self-defeating economics, the ethics of abusing return policies in a premeditated, systematic way is still slimy. I know of people who've done it, as well as YouTuber gear reviewers who do this very same practice. There's no way to avoid it since human nature is human nature, and sadly those of us who abide by the honest intentions of a return policy tend to suffer when policy privileges are changed or revoked because the added expense becomes too costly.

C'est la vie...

Quote from Dimi84

From my perspective, Mementomori has tried to illustrate part of why -- and possibly -- some amp makers feel the way they do.

Obviously nobody here was there when I discussed this issue with Joe Morgan, but judging by some of the insinuations about my stance on things, they'd probably be surprised at some of the things I said. I just don't feel an obligation to express that "I'm one of you, not one of them" because the core issue and merits each argument stands on is all that's really important. People shouldn't have to qualify their thoughts to cater to any sort of "tribal" mindshare so long as they're not trying to instigate with nefarious intent.

Quote from DeeBoughton

The ethics of what people do is another discussion entirely and sometimes what is legal is not entirely ethical.

Totally agreed, and we of course don't all agree on what those ethics are, how we feel about them, and to what degree we take them. But any good, fruitful discussion about such a topic should include honest representation of where each perspectives ethics come from.

Quote from Deej09

Oh and can I add “who” has “forced” you to say or do anything?

I don't mean literally "forced", but if somebody gives me a response that I have some disagreement with or can build on, I take the time to best explain either my or the "amp builders" line of thinking/prospective response. I do because it's interesting to me, as are things philosophical & sociological. At no point did I insult anybody despite some of the comments overtly and passively suggested towards me.

Over time I've seen enough examples of people here and on other forums taking cheap swipes and the mob cheering it together. This particular thread just interested me and I felt I had some constructive things to share. I tried my best to stay on point but inevitably somebody is going to turn this topic about me and questioning my intentions, as if it were germane.

BTW, I don't need the last word. If I have something to add, I will. Plenty of times in this thread I've read posts and let many go by without feeling the need to respond or repeat many of the same points. But if you ask me a question, I'm likely to respond. Doesn't make sense to ask a question, get a response, and then accuse me of wanting the last word...

Quote from Deej09

If you don’t agree with it then why share it unless you are deliberatively being argumentative or provocative? Why not share the view you DO agree with?

There are nuances that in some cases are being ignored, not considered, or misrepresented. There also doesn't have to be a wholesale right or wrong answer for these things, like Dave saying it's all piracy or Kemper users saying Dave only rips off Marshall's. Just as Dave can be predisposed to talk out of his ass in regards to Kemper, as can Kemper users who feel offended that Dave openly denigrates the gear they use. In my attempt to help the conversation steer itself back to something less divisive, I've basically been forced into constantly "defending" the view of Friedman and other amp builders who have expressed similar concerns because they're quickly written off.

I think at this point it's pretty much run its course.

Quote from Deej09

I honestly do understand your point of view.

Although I do hope you do not use any of these profiles in your kemper so that you feel you are not getting around any infringement of trademark of any commercial or any other amps for that matter.

And if that’s the case I only hope you are using your own homemade amps that are profiled otherwise it’s a little hypocritical given your comments and point of view.

Unless I’ve completely missed your point?

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Boy, it's no use adding caveats to any of my posts. Even when I share a perspective and explicitly say I don't agree entirely with it, it's as if it goes unread or unnoticed and becomes entirely attributed to me. It doesn't mean they're all devils just because they're not all angels.

Quote from Deej09

I agree that using the Friedman name ( or any other commercial product) on profiles is a big no no. Commercial profilers use names that are different albeit a similar reference and usually say looking to create the sound of.....

Yes, it's a way to get around infringing on a trademark, but I don't think I made my point clear initially. I'm not talking about commercial sellers using similar names, even though we all understand what they're profiling. The real exchange for funds makes that more sticky. However, people give away free profiles using the trademarked names and even pictures of the amps, which adds value to the KPA. Kemper can't be held culpable for this, nor do I think they should, but that nonetheless doesn't make the amp builder very happy.

To make a profile you must have access to the hardware they built, and I think that's where many builders take exception.

When I spoke with Joe Morgan last year about the Kemper, I explained some things in a way he hadn't thought of before, but could still tell he didn't like people using his name on profiles or thinking that it was a replacement for his amp. When the conversation started he said that his amp was "already on the Kemper", referring to rmpacheco's classic profile that comes stock on the KPA. Mind you, the profile name is "Morgan AC20". That profile alone has added great value to the Kemper, so much so that Kemper themselves put it on there as a standard profile, or at least had in the past.

What I meant is they are using his amp and even if the name is altered to avoid trademark infringement, the consumer knows what it's a profile of and it's using his name/brand/work towards an outcome that somebody else is benefiting from.

Quote from drog

Seems to me that Mr. Friedman is only against Kemper because he does not make any money from it. That is his pure motivation and objection ... period.

Well sure, having some perceived affect on your livelihood can certainly distort your sense of objectivity, no different than anyone else. I think the thing that rubs him the wrong way is that somebody can use his amp and name (a real, physical amp, not a model) to "capture" and then sell to others. He sees it as stealing off the back of his name and adding to the value of the product that is "stealing". I'm not saying I agree with that assessment, BTW.

Quote from V8guitar

The point most people are trying to make is he is complaining effectively of Kemper using his IP, but he created that off the back of someone elses ip that is so close to the original. Yes you can say a Marshall has origins in other valve amps but Jim created a step change over those.

What made the JTM different from the Fender Bassman were the 12" speakers. To the best of my knowledge that's the only difference. Of course, more innovations came later. Likewise, Friedman has amps that are very different from typical "Marshall" offerings, such as the Butterslax.

I don't think Friedman has ever tried to pretend he wasn't massively influenced by Marshall's or modded Marshall's. Like you said, even his aesthetic is very Plexi-like. But there's a difference, to me, in hat-tipping or wearing your origins on your sleeve vs stealing.

Quote from OneEng1

Kemper does not replicate a signal path in any way (Fractal does).

Interesting post & points. Admittedly, I'm not anything remotely close to a software engineer to know all the ins and outs.

My only immediate thought is that a modeler (like Fractal) tries to replicate an entire set of variables. That is programmed by a team of engineers and their best interpretations. The Kemper attempts to replicate a source tone from an entire existing chain and everything that leaves a tonal imprint as a "snapshot", which is what I meant. I can see why they feel different to someone who sees their product being used directly in its own "replacement".

Quote from DeeBoughton

I get why Mr. Friedman and other amp builders like Suhr might be afraid of Kemper and the technology in general. It makes rational economic sense why they see the danger of competition.

It depends. Plenty of amp builders get along and are friends. Even Mr Friedman is a part of Boutique Amp Distribution which distributes other brands like Wampler, Bogner, Egnater, Morgan, Diezel, Tone King, and Soldano. They also make the Synergy system and he's designed a module of the BE preamp for it. That's definitely a "newer" technology, plus Friedman has an officially licensed amp sim through Universal Audio and says nice things about the OX cab emulator. He seems to understand the modern player is seeking quieter, more convenient options to the traditional 100W heads and wall of 4x12's, as much as he says he loves them.

I guess my point is they aren't so afraid of technology or even competition to a large degree. Unlike a modeler where a group of software engineers program their interpretations of an amp, cab, mic, etc, the Kemper feels different because it takes from an existing hardware. I think that's what feels objectionable to them. They feel, right or wrong, that people aren't buying their amps because they're buying profiles of their amp and thinking it's the same.

Quote from DeeBoughton

Economic motivation is a powerful incentive which tends to make all of us say things, and act in ways, that we believe will benefit us.

100% agree, which is also why I've said I don't completely agree with Friedman's view. It also cuts both ways with some Kemper users feeling threatened or offended by the suggestion that they may be part of an ethical or moral problem and lashing out in their own self-interest.

Quote from DeeBoughton

So, let's put a finer point on it. If Friedman and Sampson have both acknowledged that they have borrowed from the original design of the original "wheel", the question then becomes why is it OK for them to copy portions or borrow from the original to help them birth their vision, and it is not OK for others to do the same, or something very similar. Even though I did not state it clearly, this is the hypocrisy to which I was alluding.

It's a philosophical wormhole that can be taken to varying levels of extremes the further we go. Everything can be traced back to a foundation somewhere. Let me also preface by saying I'm not on "their side" in such thinking, but it's not that there's nothing there.

At risk of being redundant, my impression of the nuances are that amp builders have a foundation, but they also "innovate" in subtle ways which make the resulting amp and circuit their own. The Kemper, on the other hand, seeks to replicate a signal path already in existence. It's not trying to capture a tone and then put a "Kemper spin" on it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with what the Kemper does. I do think that certain users can do unethical things with it, of course. I also think amp builders don't realize that a profile is of an entire setup, so what portion belongs to the amp / boost pedal / cab / speaker / mic / mic preamp / cables? A profile also captures a particular setting, not the entire EQ stack, for example. This is an important distinction when talking about things like "piracy". I still don't find that to really be an egregious hypocrisy, but Friedman demonstrates a lack of full understanding to what a profile is. And past commenters are correct that because the KPA does a very good job, it's more threatening to an amp builder with a business interest than, say, a Line 6 Spider.

Very interesting and well thought out post, but I do quibble with one small part (aside from the points I've raised before and don't wish to be redundant):

Quote from DeeBoughton

From a users perspective, it is offensive to me when builders/copiers of vintage circuits and sounds don't acknowledge the giants upon whose shoulders they stand.

But Friedman and Sampson both acknowledge where they come from. In the video I linked earlier, Dave talked about a Marshall Plexi being the gold standard, and he made a name for himself modding Marshall's. Earlier someone cited Sampson as saying he wanted to make a similar AC30 offshoot. To me, they do explicitly acknowledge where they come from, but they still tried to take a template and make it their own. Neither has suggested they reinvented the wheel.

Quote from don1960lp

Been down this road a couple of times. I wonder how I get great results with most stuff and then every now and then I get a pack that sounds killer in clips but the entire thing ends up being useless (for me) no matter how far I tweak - and I'm only going to deviate from the source so much before considering it a lost cause.

I keep everything and have gone back weeks later to re-evaluate things and have not once ended up changing my mind.

The biggest factors IMO are monitoring and your pickups. Like you, I've purchased packs after hearing really impressive clips only to be disenchanted.

My experience with the Kemper has been that most profiles are very reliant and sensitive to pickups, more so than the amps I've used. Some profiles sound good with humbuckers but not with single coils, and visa-versa. There are some that sound great both ways, but that's pretty rare IME. Then of course there are profiles that sound great in clips with a certain pickup set, say a PAF, and I try it with my high output DiMarzio pickups and it just doesn't gel. Like you, I'm not going to tweak something into oblivion if it's not close, especially since I'd have already better options available. Honestly, the best profiles I've played have been gems on RE or shared for free. That takes a lot of time and sifting, though.

Quote from don1960lp

I'm really not sure why so many rigs are profiled with the gain knob so cranked! Shouldn't the gain be coming from the amp????

I recall reading somewhere that Keith Merrow profiles his amps at pretty low gain and then increases the post-gain on the Kemper. Don't 100% know why, perhaps he feels it's tighter or mitigates some of the shrill/graininess that plagues many high gain profiles.

If people are jacking the gain, it also may be dependent on what they're monitoring through. A certain commercial seller who uses sound clips from a cell phone near a cab to sell profiles makes some of the worst profiles I've auditioned. That's because they insisted that people use their direct profiles through a cab and obviously tweaked it to get a certain response from their Marshall cab in the room, but if you monitor it through an FRFR system with an IR it was a mushy mess of gain and bloated low-end. Their clips sounded better than my results based on how they were using it.

Quote from BB2019

I stand by my original asssesment about Mr. Friedman that offended MM.

You never offended me FYI.

Quote from V8guitar

Back to Mr Freidman:

1) His evolution of his amps are not entirely the same argument as trying to create a facsimile BUT I do think he cannot be classed as an innovator - he has "just" improved

I don't understand the parsing of hairs. If he "improved" an amp design, that requires some level of innovation even if it's not reinventing the wheel.

Quote from V8guitar

2) I think he will slowly pay the price of not getting involved in digital. Just dissing it will lose him fans not gain them.

He does have an officially licensed UA plugin and I believe there are other digital mediums he's participated in. He also makes an FRFR cab & wedge which some Kemper users have. He hasn't avoided digital completely, he just has choice feelings for profiling.

Quote from BB2019

Hahahaha.. So you are now the self proclaim moderator of this discussion. You are something. Here you are talking about control while being the one trying to control this post. GFY troll. You need a hobby, maybe play the guitar.

There is a topic for the thread. Derailing, especially with petty personal stabs will only get the mods to warn, ban, or close the thread. Regardless, the constant railing and immaturity is something any person would wish to abandon to have any modicum of peaceful and constructive discussion. If you don’t want to have that, go hang out on Reddit and shitpost all day there. In the interim you’re only wasting your own time and making yourself look more foolish by insisting on plastering insults and labels rather than actually addressing the topic at hand. Show a little maturity and act like an adult.

Quote from BB2019

Practice what you preach Mr. Hypocrisy. This is the most I have participated here. You on the other hand, you troll anything to throw your snide complaints about the Kemper and the members here, to spread your bs. I think you sold your Kemper. lol. Mature enough? Mr. I can't stop responding because you are not mature enough to let it go. Hahahaha! you are a troll. Class A. Except this time, you are talking to someone who can see through your bs. I am laughing at you. You are predictable.

Responding politely as I have doesn't make me a hypocrite or lacking maturity. I also don't troll anybody or anything, much less with any chance I get. You may not like my opinion of the KPA when it's not completely glowing, but that's not under your control. You're also free to incorrectly assume I sold my KPA, but you're just as wrong about that.

Once you're ready to return to the topic, go right ahead. In the meantime it's just childish mudslinging that accomplishes absolutely nothing constructive. You accuse me of being a troll yet are the only one hurling personal invective. Once you're done pretend laughing to postulate superiority, come have a chat.