Posts by radiooctave

    A lot of people use it just for the FX without the amp models. I have the axe3 and the floorboard and I use it with my real amps for the routing and FX and "pedalboard". Some of the FX are really good and about everything is covered. It even has a Keely Halo effect, so they keep an eye on whats popular and try to provide it.


    I dont particularly like the models in the axe 3 personally.

    They really seem to employ a lot of CPU power (and respective development effort) into their amp models, but I still doubt whether people who are really into top notch sounds - i.e., the target group for the pristine effect models of fractal - would buy into the component modelling game, in particular, when they typically will have their magic amps at home, with some of them being individually modded etc., so you won't even get that sound out of any digital device other than by "profiling"/"capturing" it.

    I have never ever played any of Fractal Audio's gear, but judging on the number (and ranks) of professional musicians who do use it for their work, it is somewhat safe to say that FAS produce very excellent sounding pieces of gear, in particular regarding the effects chain (see, e.g., John Petrucci). So I believe that the sound and most likely also the feel when playing are beyond reasonable doubt, and it comes down to usability, preference of workflow, additional options etc.


    Personally, I don't get really excited by the thought that all amps you can have are the models that the company has provided - or some workarounds by users. My ears probably might not notice the difference in a blind A/B testing - or they might, who knows. But the concept a priori sounds truly restricting to me.


    For that very reason, I would have thought that the Quad Cortex was a far more serious competitor to the Kemper. If you are really into component modelling, and accept the (few) drawbacks that come along with it (the company decides what amps you play), then the Axe is the best thing on the market. But if not, if you want that extra freedom to just extract and conserve a specific sound of an amp wherever you may hear it, Fractal Audio does not offer you anything. But Quad Cortex does, and it offers additional modelling for *certain* models as does the Axe. So you have your preset models, AND you can "capture" other amps.


    Now Liquid Profiling appears to go even one step further: If it works as announced, it closes the gap of the only point where modelling might have an advantage over profiling/capturing: The tonestack and gainstage behaviour over a wide parameter range. And for those amps the company did not provide any model, you are still better off than with classical modelling *only*.

    at the moment I’m very happy to report my QC, is on it’s way back to Sweetwater . It’s just not ready for live use, in my eyes

    what exactly was it that didn't convince you?


    I am just curious for independent opinions (that the youtube influencers who got the unit for free or even got extra paid for it, would all give it a 10/10 or the like, was a story a bit too expectable...)


    I am not sure how quickly it can be done.


    As far as I understand the procedure of profiling, you have some sort of Wiener-Hammerstein topology where you have two frequency response curves sandwiching a nonlinearity such as a hyperbolic tangent. At least, that is what their patent says.


    As the frequency responses are sandwiching the nonlinearity, you cannot simply "morph" their parameters for blending

    (its A1*NL*B1 + A2*NL*B2, you cannot "morph" a parameter between A1 and A2 for blending, not even offline).

    So the calculus might be more involved, and not that instantaneous, there would highly likely be a switching gap.


    Still, it could be done at the editor, and if the gap is a second or so then there is not really a problem for "trial and error", IMO. You select a blending ratio, have the output profile, play it, change the ratio, wait a second, and play it again.

    It's not like a reboot, it can be done, I'd say.

    You can blend 2 amps into a single profile during profiling. It entails using 2 mixers. One from the output from the Kemper to split the signal to the 2 amps. Another mixes the sounds from the mics on each individual amp. You can mix them any percentage you like, just like a multiple mic profile.

    While for more professional users this might be no problem, as they simply mix down two of their favourite amps in their studio, others might just not have these possibilities, or just would like to blend an amp with a profile of another amp they do not own.

    From what we've been told previously (and of course, now I can't find the relevant reference from CK to corroborate my statement), morphing between two profiles requires both profiles to be loaded and active simultaneously. Current hardware is not (and cannot be) set up to do this.

    The only way to do this now that I'm aware of is two KPAs, or an entirely new device. The latter requiring an overhaul of the KPA OS as well as features in RM not even hinted at.

    If using the sound of two different profiles - i.e., "dual amping" - right now would be feasible in any way, the feature probably would already have been implemented, as it seems to be a highly popular feature, judging by the requests.


    So it is most likely not feasible in an efficient way (i.e., without sacrificing the reverb tails etc.) for the hardware.


    And that's just why some workaround to at least approximate this dual amping via blending the two amps offline into a new profile and then using it for amping could be a very useful feature, as it might be the closest the KPA can get to dual amping.


    And in particular, as the blending would be done offline, with the option of a frequency dependent blending one could generate an "output" profile with the chiming, sparkling top end of a (insert your favourite soloing lead amp here), but still maintaining that thick and tight low end of the (insert your favourite rhythm amp here).


    I definitely think it would be worth it.

    While recently there have been requests for a hardware update (i.e., a "Kemper 2.0") with two independent signal chains, one main objective of these requests is the possibility to have two different amps in parallel (see also the ongoing QC thread in "other gear").


    While two amps in two parallel signal chains do not seem feasible for the Kemper due to DSP restrictions (I think this has already been addressed many times), there might be a "workaround feature":


    How about "blending" two amp profiles, i.e., choosing two different amp profiles as "input", and have a "blended" (or mixed) profile of the two amps as "output", that could then be used in the amp section. I understand that the desire for two parallel amps is mainly for practicing, rehearsal and live purposes (rather than studio where reamping separately would normally be the better option). So for these purposes, the blended profile could at least get close to the parallel setting, even if the post effects would be applied to the blended signal.


    The blending could be controlled via the editor (but the computations could be run on the Kemper hardware).

    There could even be options for setting a "mixing ratio" other than 50:50. Maybe there could even be something like a frequency-dependent mixing, i.e., the output profile is based on Amp1 for low frequencies and based on Amp2 for high frequencies (preferably, with an adjustable transition or splitting frequency).


    And then, one profile could also be used as an input into another profile (such that it would not be a mixing, but the output would be the profile of the full chain of the two input profiles one after another). This could be used for combining drive pedal profiles with amp profiles. So far, if one profiles a drive pedal, either it is "baked in" into an amp profile, or there is no amp profile in a rig. For baking it in, however, one needs to have both the amp and the pedal physically at the same place.

    You cannot profile a friend's pedal at a rehearsal or after a gig and then "cascade" it into your favourite amp profile - so far. But with the proposed cascading option, one could even add the pedal to a running profile via a simple remote switching in a performance.


    I guess these could be really useful features for many live oriented players.

    And though the frequency dependent option for blending and also the pedal into amp cascading might be more advanced to implement, it might well pay off.

    I think they also had REALLY bad luck launching their most important product ever during a global lockdown without anyone able to do any gigs - neither professionals, nor the smallest hobby band players. Lots of places would not even allow reherasals during months.


    So there is hardly any viral "propaganda" / information about how the unit performs in situations other than "the bedroom".


    And after watching the video, I can imagine that Jonathan Cordy hits really a critical spot when saying that a huge marketing point for the QC in particular to take on the Kemper, was the signal routing possibilities. If you are a modelling guy anyway, you have the Helix or the Axe with their parallel signal chains and dual amping and everything. The capture might be an additional feature, nice to have, but not THE deal-breaker for you.


    But if you were always interested in the profiling process but were eager for the dual chain thing, the QC seemed THE paradise unit you were always longing for.


    And then, if you see that all of a sudden, a lot of reverbs get blocked in the second chain, than given the way Neural DSP promoted the QC as the unit that will win the final of all wars just by sheer CPU power, it is just not what you might have expected.

    ADA MP1s have been successfully profiled many times - one famous unit is in the Michael Wagener Rig Pack (Extreme Pornograffitti among others)

    there are many Profiles in the Rig Exchange, so it might be an issue with your unit (too noisy like you said) and not an issue of the PROFILER

    I have bought some professional ADA packs, not the one by Wagener, though, as it was available only in a very large bundle with lots of other profiles I was not too interested in.


    I want to go with the ADA into the return loop of a JCM800, because...well, because it's a JCM800, this should be sufficient reason. At my friend's place, he used a DSL2000 (which itself also had a nice sound, adding its couloring, when running the ADA through the power section and the cabs).


    I haven't found any profiles of such a setup yet. Most profiles focus on the Nuno type of sound for the ADA, while I am more interested in Gilbert's early sound.


    The commercial profiles I got do all sound very well, some match my needs better than others, but I am still on that famous chase for THE specific tone I have in mind. I doubt anyone here on the forum will even know what kind of chase I'm talking about ;)

    3 videos with Rabea can be found on this thread. Two dealing with Victory Amp Profiles, and one dealing with pedal captures.

    You should watch them and form your own opinion.


    Btw: The Profiler can for sure run a chorus and a delay in parallel.

    I found the video of Rabea presenting his most recent Victory profiles , and they seem impecable to the extent that dislike can only be a matter of personal taste any more, indeed. The video has no A/B comparisons, but definitely none of the profiles seems to be from a profiling failure, so I don't really know where that discussion actually came from (I apologize for reproducing it, even labelling it properly as rumor, without fact-checking myself).


    Regarding the pedal captures: yes, some indeed are quite too gainy or just spectrally off key. But would there be the possibility to implement a specific (adjusted) profiling mode in the KPA for making raw profiles only from OD pedals (i.e., without any amp) at a specific setting? I mean, it is possible to make direct profiles of solid state amps, and their gain stages should not differ too much from pedals, regarding the non-linearities they introduce into the signal.


    A profile of a pedal, not baked into the amp profile, but located in the stomp section, would be a total blast. E.g., I have a Boss SD2, which has a very shiny-chimey top end at some settings, but I do not want to run it in front of the Kemper, as for some amp profiles, I simply need (or prefer) an SD1. I tend to believe that the situation of people having multiple amps and different pedals, and wish to combine certain pedals with certain amps (but flexible enough to not bake the pedals into the profiles) is not too exotic.


    And would it be possible to make the "rig setting" such that not only the last two single effect modules, but two small effect processing chains (even if its only two modules each chain) could be run fully in parallel (or put it differently, to let the already existing parallel path start in the post-amp section)? It could further enhance the spatial perception.

    usually just a little bit more effort is required to sensibly contribute to a discussion.

    after 94 pages and close to 1.900 posts in this thread, it is a bit difficult to keep track with all the video snippets those many people posted here.

    If there was just some "link library" to a thread where all youtube or soundcloud links would have a quick access, it might be a little easier to resolve these kind of doubts (this might be a feature other threads could profit of, who knows ;)).


    But indeed, it was only hearsay, so my apologies, I should not be contributing to chatter noise.


    However, I myself had troubles to get profiles out of an old ADA MP1 unit (from the first batch, I changed tubes & caps) I bought somewhere 2nd hand on the web. I did not give it too much importance, as I thought the unit is just too noisy (which it probably is, the ADA noise mod exists for some reason), a friend of mine had to find a workaround profiling it at significantly lower gain and then tweaking the gain up manually in the profile, but I'd say that did not really conserve the typical ADAish cutting high end. Anyway, the unit seems quite a mess, so whatever.

    The real problem with the QC is its not a game changer...and I mean that in the most positive sense.

    It can be a game changer for some.


    To start with, there appear to exist amps that the KPA has troubles with to profile them. I'm not sure which of the "influencer" reviewers it was (Rabea, I think), and which amp (I have in mind Victory), but I read it was some sort of a demonstration that Kemper did not properly profile an amp that the Quad Cortex captured more than fine (but I did not see the video, I only read reactions about it).


    But even assuming you only use 3rd party profiles, or you don't have problems with profiling your own amps:


    The QC allows for splitting the signal flow behind the amp section (or also before), to have true stereo lines with independent time-dependent effects, among other things. Afaik, in the Kemper you can't have a stereo chorus and put a delay only on output B of the chorus. That's only one possible example, the signal flow clearly has more flexibility.


    And then, there's the feature of capturing OD/dist pedals. Yes, you can profile them with a Kemper, but you won't have the profiles in the stomp section to combine them with your favourite amp profile. You have to "bake it in" into the amp sound that you profile. C. Kemper said that they _could_ add such a feature to the Kemper, too, but the results would not be what people expect, sound-quality-wise. I haven't heard the QC captures of pedals that the reviewers made, but I can hardly imagine they would allow for a feature to hit the public - even only by influencer videos - if the implementation was totally crappy.


    Sure, you might consider that you do not need any of these features, and then the game doesn't change for you at all, obviously.


    But there are features which do make a qualitative leap in the meaning that "something new is done", not only "something available is done slightly better" - under the assumption that the unit holds up what it claims regarding the sound quality and playing feel. The change then would be that many people might just want to have everything they need in one unit (also their pedals and full effects). And that's probably what a lot of the fuzz around this unit is all about.

    The CEO said they were working on the firmware and the social platform thingie as recently as one week ago.

    Software takes ages to pass all the stages before it reaches production quality.

    I don't understand how they are promising the product in two weeks when they are still in the development phase ...

    Yes, I read what was posted here in this thread as citations of TGP.


    Still, they cannot give the unit to the reviewers if the firmware has other than negligible glitches. They will simply not hand it to people like Pete Thorn if it does not work yet, apart from very small issues. And those minor corrections or improvements suggested by the reviewers (e.g., for not having the switching gaps) will not take many weeks, the don't need to redesign the file management system for this.


    And it makes absolutely no sense keeping people waiting for so long only because the cloud platform - which is supposed to be an add-on, but not necessary for the unit to work - is not set up yet. Except for if THEY (i.e., Doug Castro) decide that the cloud is necessary to THEM from day 1.


    In any case, there really must be some big issue to keep people waiting like this. I mean, they cannot make the market share only from the pre-orders, they need to get to the people "on the fence". And the longer the product does not hit the market, the more difficult is it to maintain these people interested, let alone "excited" about the product. Some may even get tired of waiting and switch to other solutions.


    I understand that right now is also a really bad moment for launching musical gear, lots of lockdowns, many shops are even closed, there are no concerts or other events allowed in many places, some even have prohibited gatherings the size of band rehearsal. So all the typical "multiplier effects" that may originate from musicians receiving a product early in the line, are breaking away. But this possibly won't change too soon, at least with the live shows, in many places (in Europe, they already start cancelling shows scheduled in summer). On the other hand, lots of players just sit around at home with nothing to do with their time (no shows, no rehearsals) but to play around with their gear.


    It simply does not make any sense, if it's not for something really serious - and the cloud thing does certainly not fall in this category.

    I believe that NeuralDSP wanted to be the first in creating the "best of both worlds" device, i.e., having both component-level modelled amps AND some sort of "real acoustic scan" of real amps.


    Fractal does not have the latter, and the fractal crowd knows it and is happy with that, so fractal went on improving their component-level modelling, on the basis of adding mor raw CPU power, but also on the modelling itself, I guess (improving crucial components' behaviour in the model etc.).


    The market with component-level modelling is really competitive, as there is also Helix, Positive Grid/Bias, Amplifire and I don't even know who else (I guess Headrush is doing it, as well; Amplitube and Guitar Rig on the software side, probably ToneForge, too...).


    Though Neural has shown their component modelling skills with their plugins, putting it into a viable, stage-ready hardware device (with need for an own firmware/OS and all that stuff) is some step that the typical fractal guy probably just sit out on the fence to see how good its working.


    I agree, their main target probably are (potential) Kemper users who might want to have more flexibility in the signal flow (e.g., full stereo post-amp signal chains instead of isolated stereo effects etc.).


    In the Paul Davids video (https://tinyurl.com/3gckpuar) there a a few (but very few...) examples of the on-board presets which should be from amp modelling (as the display symbols are amps, not "captures"). To say the least, they do not appear to sound unbearable. But I would need some half a dozen of truly different amps, possible with changing setting of the amps and giving respective sound examples, for telling how they really "perform", in particular compared to the real amp, but I haven't seen/found such a video yet.

    I am still quite puzzled about the continuous delays of shipment.


    I remember that in early 2020, when people could sign up for the first batch of QC on the Neural DSP website, it was announced that units would be shipped in September ('20), and a second batch would be shipped in November. Of course, come a global pandemic with its lockdowns, no usual HW supply chains, possibly no daycare for your engineers etc.


    But at a certain point, this gets factored in, and you announce a new shipment date that you more or less know you can maintain.


    But now, following the development on pages like Thomann, it appears the guys at NeuralDSP are "salamiing" the delay, a little slice more each time.


    And this happens while the typical reviewers in the scene (Pete Thorn, Rabea etc.) already have had their units. I doubt that NeuralDSP sends out a total beta thing, full of glitches beyond any usability, to the reviewers. So I doubt there are still any major software issues with the unit to be solved. Neither does it make sense to leave your most loyal buyers - those of the first batch - waiting because the interface to your cloud service isn't set up yet (full local backup via USB would be totally sufficient, for starting).


    There are reports of widespread semiconductor product shortage, idk whether this might play a role in the delays.


    Otherwise, except for legal issues that people would surely have had notice of by now, I have no viable explanation for these delays.

    To get back to the topic,


    I now watched the demo video by Paul Davids (https://tinyurl.com/3gckpuar), as well as the one by Pete Thorn (https://tinyurl.com/1j0okjgi).


    I also watched snippets from some others.


    In order to summarize in particular the Paul Davids video:


    KPA vs QC core performance:

    He profiles (KPA) and captures (QC) three different amp settings (a Matchless and a Tone King, at the edge of breaking up, and a gainy Matchless setting with two dirt pedals in front), and he says that the Kemper has always more gain than the original, so he has to roll gain down manually to match the profile; the impression I had from the sound bites is consistent with this, the KPA sound had slightly more fizz and less clarity than the original.


    What Davids did not mention (at least, I do not remember it) is that the Quad Cortex has always (noticeably) less gain than the original, the was less "chugg" and also a clearly "thinner" tone (less sustain, I guess). This appears also consistent with what others here in the thread reported about other sound snippets from other demo videos.


    Furthermore, the original settings (maybe due to the combination with the guitars Davids used, idk) all have some "chimey" high end that neither the KPA nor the QC appear to fully reproduce, imo. Of course, you may tweak these things in manually by EQing the profile/capture, but I guess we are rating the fidelity/quality of the "raw" profiling/capture process, so no EQ is considered here. If I had to choose which out of the KPA and the QC comes closer to the original "chime", I'd probably go for the QC (it seems that the QC would be reaching this chime by staying closer to the completely untreated raw guitar sound, which typically DOES have such a chime, and keeping it by "not fully amping" it, thus less gain).


    Performance of other features:

    Davids furthermore adds that the reverbs and delays of the QC are below/weaker than the ones of the Kemper (although for the setting where he actually adds reverb, the KPA sound has a weird bubbling in the end that compared to the original simply should not be there, neither does it suit the sound).


    In my opinion, the reverbs and delays can be improved with updates. Fwiw, the current reverb and delay sections of the Kemper, which Davids prefers ove the QC, are results of updates (the reverb section has received the crucial update not long ago, when the KPA was already way more than 5 years on the market).


    One always has to be wary of the sounds that you get from people who received the unit for review AS AN EXCLUSIVE PRIVILEGE, while that unit is not available on the market yet to the general user. Even criticism is to be taken with its grain of salt.


    My conclusions/TL; DR:

    But: claims here that it does not sound well or is way below the Kemper in sound quality or whatsoever, just do not seem to be justified. Likewise, the claims about whether or not is is useful at all with its touch screen, and ist knob foot switches and so forth. Some may find it not useful, others won't care, it's just a matter of personal choice for a specific feature that will affect some part of the market, but certainly not the whole general public.

    The only issue that might "scare off" a substantial amount of users (imo) could be the mandatory cloud thing (and we might still get a surprise about how little people care about controlling their own data property).


    I suspect that the unit's success finally comes down to really putting it in the stores, so that people who are interested can really try it, hear it and feel it.


    But that's it, get it in the market for people to test it. Right now, we still seem to be weeks - possibly months away from that point.

    Regarding the possible patent infringement of the "neural capture" process available in the Quad Cortex:


    There is a legal part of the issue, and a practical part.

    The legal part is basically about whether there is actually a patent infringement by Neural DSP when selling/offering the Quad Cortex with the capture feature, or whether they are legally free to do it.
    The practical part is about whether, under the assumption that Neural Capture actually does or at least might violate one or some of the patents owned by Kemper, it would make sense to sue, or whether the trial costs - or even a possible risk of losing the trial - might be to high (if one assumes that there is no legal infringement, going to court does not make any sense whatsoever).


    The practical part has to do with the fact that patent infringement lawsuits typically cost a freaking truckload of money, and you might get it back from the infringer, or at least to some amount, but if the costs for the lawyers and the court fees etc. are much higher than what you could get out of it, then you have to see whether a product can be so dangerous to you that you want to keep it out of the market at almost all costs (or whether you want to try to settle on an agreement with the infringer in order to not risk your own cash flow etc.). And: Sometimes, infringements are not that easy to prove, in particular in software-based implementations - i.e., to be totally proven, not some "it must be like this" guessing, but sufficiently solid proof so that a judge will rule over tenthousands (or hundreds of thousands) of $$/€€ on basis of the proof.


    The more technical part is the legal part. It seems that the european patent is valid in Germany, UK, France and Sweden, and the protection of the patent (what the patent owner truely "ownes" as invention) is actually for the imlpementation of the profiling process as some Wiener-Hammerstein model of a hyperbolic tangent sandwiched by two frequency response transfer functions (the ones to be found by the profiling in order to represent the amp in question). If Neural DSP found some workaround here, they would appear to be free. They claim they are doing some neural-network-like approach, however without specifying what exactly the networks are "learning"/training (but a priori, it sounds different).


    However, the US patent and a further German patent both have a protected invention that seems insanely general, it looks like it might cover all possible profiling/capture/younameit processes as soon as the process uses a comparison/difference of two frequency response curves (one for the real amp, the other for its profile). It is difficult to imagine any possible implementation of a profiling/capture process without comparing these two frequency responses. One probabely would have to implement the process completely in time domain rather than with frequencies (to be absolutely sure about not touching the Kemper patent), and I find it difficult to believe that such an implementation is technically feasible at all (in particular, when hearing the white noises involved).


    Given what is protected by the US patent and the feasibility issues with what's left to do then, I could imagine that the Kemper US patent actually might be infringed by the Neural Capture process. Whether this is easy to prove now (I mean, "court-solid" proof), could be a totally different story