Oh, forgot to mention I also turned on the "Return 3 &4" ground lift button. I was getting a tiny bit of noise. This could have been part of the culprit as well???
Well, after doing some profiling with a real cab hooked up ( speaker out -> DI thru w/real cab -> Kemper) I think that works the best. I still get a little variation but not nearly as wide as before.
Also, I get more variation with the Two Notes Torpedo Captor than I do with my Rupert Neve RNDI.
I think the culprit was the Captor. Being a reactive load it most not be as consistent as a real speaker???
So, my conclusion would be:
You can use a reactive load box like the Captor into a DAW with IRs but the results can be all over the place.
Using the Captor with a thru to a real speaker is better.
The best is to use the Rupert RNDI with a real speaker.
Thanks everyone who has responded and for your help!
Yes, I have messed with that refining process and used a looper pedal that way it was identical and I still got different results.
I am coming to the conclusion that this is either normal??? for the Kemper or mine is defective??
Anyone???, please do an experiment and see if you have the same results.
I'm not actually too worried that the Kemper would not be an exact copy of the real amp but consistency to me is very important.
Ok, so today first thing I try is using my Torpedo Captor in thru mode while hooked to a cab. The idea here is to make a DA profile and then add the same IR to each to hear the difference.
Still get inconsistent results. Definition varies from 8.0 to 10.0. I can then set definition to the same on all examples and it changes the tone a little but still ALL are inconsistent and do not sound the same.
Up next: I do the same experiment with my Rupert Neve DI box, going thru to a real cab. I get the same results= INCONSISTENT!!!!!
The Neve DI did sound a little richer overall which would be expected but again the results are different each time. It's not always just the definition but also the gain. Today I just ran each set in groups of 3. All 3 always sound different. I can even afterward set Definition and Gain the same and they still sound different.
I always allow the amp to warm up for a few minutes as well.
So, is my Kemper defective???
Has anyone else tried an experiment like this? Do you get the same result each time or is mine faulty?
i’m only thinking out loud here but have you tried a simple DI Box with the real speaker connected to the through.
i have the Torpedo Reload which the Captor is based on and it definitely changes the sound of profiles. In my case not necessarily in “bad” way but definitely different. For DI profiles I actually prefer my cheap and cheerful ART DI box.
No, I haven't but that is what I am planning for this weekend along with just the actual speaker and mics. I also do have a few other DI boxes ( Radial & Rupert Neve ) to try. Thanks for the heads up on the DI boxes. I do know that all are not created equal when dealing with those. Thanks for your response, I really do appreciate you taking your time to help!
If you were using your DAW for IR sounds, you were using external digital gear that may not of been completely in sync. Most DAW’s have some latency. Is it possible for you to direct monitor through an IR plug-in?
First, I really appreciate your help!
The way I was profiling, I wasn't using any digital signal so I wouldn't have to do any clock syncing. I understand what you mean though, I have ADAT preamps etc. I did however try different input buffer latency settings. That was one of the first things I thought it might be. This last set I profiled was entirely done with only my torpedo captor and the amp so, no DAW or interface etc in the chain. I wanted to rule that out but the problem is still there. This last set I just imported my IRs to the Kemper and used them with the DA profiles that way I could rule out any other thing besides the Kemper it's self. I even tried different amps. I also have Two Captors ( 8 Ohm & 16 Ohm) and tried both....same thing happens. It is with the Kemper, but why??? Am I missing something?? I should add that I have not been doing the refining process. I had read that it isn't needed and I have experimented and haven't noticed any major differences.
Are you using your Kemper as the Master Clock to keep your DAW in sync? if not, the lack of synchronization might get cause each profile different.
No, I was not but I was also not using a digital signal in either case I was profiling.
I have a Stage. I got it I think last October. Played around with it for a while then went for months not being able to use it much-really busy on other things. So, my problem is that when I profile I get different results. I was doing it like this: Amp -> Torpedo Captor -> DAW w/ IRs -> back to Kemper
I started noticing that my results were all over the place. First, I thought well maybe somewhere in my chain I have an issue. I tried different amps, cords, etc and no difference. I still get this inconsistency. Some sound good while others sound really bad - harsh and trebly and anywhere in between.
So, today I make 10 Direct Amp DA profiles of the same amp with the same settings. The definition will come out any where from 8.5 to 10.0 on this set of 10. I then import the same single IR and adjust the definition the same for each of these rigs. They all sound different! What is causing this?
Maybe a gain staging problem? How do you make your (direct amp?) profiles? Using DAW and IR loader / plugins the profiling process is very sensitive to this.
I've been doing it like this:
Speaker out -> Torpedo Captor -> DAW via my Presonus Studio 192 -> Studio One Pro 4->IR loader w/IRs -> back to Kemper
I have also tried using some FX like very mild EQ curves or Console emulators but usually prefer it dry so that down the road I won't be stuck with that sound and add those FX later in a mix.
When I first got the Stage I was all over the place with gain staging ( Captor? preamp gain? DAW CH volumes? DAW Output volume?). I think I've got it narrowed down but maybe this problem I'm having has been there from the start? I have had early profiles that sounded great and others that were just horrible.
I have narrowed down for gain staging to only adjust the output of the Captor and keep everything else the same. At first I was getting lots of To Low or Too High error signals back into the kemper. By keeping everything at around unity gain and only adjusting the output of the Captor seems to work better, I think. I have even tried different latency buffers thinking maybe that could be it but....same story???
Thanks for sharing! So this is basically one (direct amp) profile with different IR?
They all sound very very bright and harsh to my ears. So I tried some other cabs and IR (from other profiles and Ownhammer, Bogren, ML Soundlab, Celestion, my own cab IR...). They all sound pretty good (or workable at least) and none of them had that "ear piercing" harshness. Maybe it's just me
Thanks for informing of that! You are correct. I appear to be having an issue that I am trying to find the problem. I can make a profile using the exact same settings 5 times and I get 5 varying different results. I have ruled out all outboard gear such as amp, cables and load box so, the problem must be in my DAW or the Kemper itself. The definition can vary from 0.2 to 10.0! And sometimes the definition will be very close but still sound very different- like harsh and brittle sounding. Since I've owned the Kemper Stage I haven't yet did any profiling with a real cab and mic. I think I will try that out this weekend to see if it does the same thing. Any of you guys have similar troubles?
Here are a few profiles of my Marshall DSL 20HR with a Marshall Silver Jubilee 2x12 Vertical 2536A cab loaded with Greenbacks.
The different mics used are in the name EX:
D20 JB2GB "421" ……"421" meaning Sennheiser MD421
"57" - Shure SM57
"M81" - Telefunken M81-SH
"7B" - Shure SM7B
"N102" - Neuman TLM 102
"609" - Sennheiser E609
"Rib" - SE Electronics X1R Ribbon
There are a few multi-mics as well done at 50% each mic.
These are all zombiecabs IRs ( https://zombiecabs.com/ ) in the profiles in which I used the original length IRs (about 2 seconds long) so I think they sound about 10-20% better than what is available on the website(125ms). The Kemper seems to be able to respond better with the longer IRs while profiling. This is making me think about offering some special "Kemper IR Packs" that would be much longer that can be used in a DAW for profiling purposes only. Let me know what you guys think?
Here are some profiles (14) of my Jubilee 2525H with multiple cabs. This time just used a Sennheiser E609 single mic with my Zombiecabs IRs.
Ld ch w gain about 6, LD master 7, and output master 6
Maybe rent a studio that has some nice amps?
With respect, some of you aren't reading what I wrote.
Here's the latest profile I downloaded. He gives samples that have not been mixed. It sounds good, which is why I bought it.
The results I got weren't close in terms of quality. And yes, I know different guitars sound better but the results shouldn't be inferior.
Your answer is at about 1:00 in the vid. The guy says he is running it through an "API Summing Amp". That is that color you are hearing in the vid that you probably don't have at home. An API mic pre can be a very colored tone. You can also add in the "youtube compression".
I would 2nd the profile your own amps. When I had mine just for a few days going through presets I was not very impressed. It wasn't until I started profiling my own amps that I really liked the Kemper.
Well, I have quickly got in to the profiling of my own amps. I still haven't even made a single performance yet and barely tweak any of the FX.
I'm still learning and experimenting with making my own profiles. I have found quickly that different recording levels on the process can make a huge difference in the outcome. Any good "How to profile" resources?
Yes, that is right I said 45 different cabinets!
The amp is the same on all of these. Studio Classic with Master on 3 and gain on 6.
All of these are Zombiecabs Impulse Responses.
I created these IRs. I'm one of the owners of Zombiecabs.
Most are using 3 mics- a ribbon, Sm57 and a room mic.
All of them with the "Bog/OR" in the name are a mix of two 412 cabs, the same cab on all profiles but with different mics. 57, MD421, E609 etc so you can hear all mics available.
Finally, there are two with the name ending in "RM1" & "RM2" which are just room mics. RM1- Telefunken M81-SH and RM2 Neuman TLM102
DL them all so you can check out those Zombiecabs IRs.
Author "M ROE"