KPA vs AxeFx II

Quote from manuelcicca

Well I've got the Axe on pre-order...was supposed to come in my room few months back but they're playing being 'The very precious' guys (hence the long wait perhaps ) --not for much longer I'm afraid.......will probably cancel the pre order and give it to someone else...it's a lot of money just for some effects I can achieve anyway using some good DAW sequencer crazy thing. From the reviews I've read KPA wins big time over the AXE for sound quality ..and that's all I'm concerned with

You make it sound like they don't want to sell you an Axe? Why would Fractal or KPA or anyone else not want to sell something? Most people don't understand that they can't keep up with the demand, and that's the only reason they'r not easily available, they're not a huge company like Yamaha, Roland etc, you actually think they hold it back from selling, just to be: 'The very precious' guys" Sorry but I think you're totally wrong on that, it makes no sense at all..

Quote from Radley

I would also add that the AFXII overdrive & distortion sounds a bit more connected and smooth, IMHO.

i had the same initial reaction, however i have found the profile really dictates it all.
i have found some hi gain profiles now that really satisfy & address my 1st concerns.
clean to rootsy/vintage tones, i believe the kemper is hands down the best i've ever played.
i also find the kemper is the quietest unit i have ever owned. i never use a noise gate.
i also presently still own an axe ultra & axeII.
the kemper is really like playing an amp.

Quote from MadH

To me it sounds with too much clarity and thinner in general. Not as warn and round. In other words less like a real tube amp.

We must simply agree to disagree on this one.

I found the Axe distortions to all sound very similar in a crunchy midrange way. As though they were all subtle variations of the same algo (which they may be for all I know). Ultimately, the KPA is waaaaay more capable of creating different overdriven, harmonic and distortion characteristics than my Axe was. When I play a Bogner patch in the Axe, it sounds like a relatively generic overdriven amp. In the KPA, it sounds like MY Bogner.

I agree that the AFX amps can sound somewhat similar, but I do believe the basic AFX distortion is smoother and 'wider'. I'm hoping each company will learn 'tricks' from the other, and raise the overall modeling bar big-time this year!

The only thing I would like to see on the AMP side on the KPA is to be able to take several profiles on the same amp channel and combine them together into one profile so it is more accurate when you play with the EQ and gain knobs. It could be like an advanced mode of the profiler. Also maybe a rework of the cab section interface/settings with more usable options. I don't think Kemper needs to learn anything from the Axe FX in that sense. On the other side the guys from Fractal already took note of what the KPA does and they are in the process of copying the idea. If they succeed and are able to deliver the same results then it will be Kemper's turn to raise the bar again.

That's the Idea!!!

Quote from DigitalTube

You make it sound like they don't want to sell you an Axe? Why would Fractal or KPA or anyone else not want to sell something? Most people don't understand that they can't keep up with the demand, and that's the only reason they'r not easily available, they're not a huge company like Yamaha, Roland etc, you actually think they hold it back from selling, just to be: 'The very precious' guys" Sorry but I think you're totally wrong on that, it makes no sense at all..

Yeah but you can "buy it now" IF you pay 500 extra Am I the only one who thinks that pretty crazy? I mean dang kinda sticking it to ya. You can pay extra money to jump the line. Good for cliff. Not good for the customer.

I spent considerable time with both units over this past weekend (The Kemper and Axe FX II). I will be posting a more detailed review later on all of the various forums.

As a pro player I will purchase and use any unit (or units) that sound the best for me. I'm definitely not emotionally tied to either unit. Gear is just gear to me. I have been through more boutique amps than I can count and I have decided to make the leap into the digital realm. I haven't sold off any of my tube amps either (they aren't going anywhere just yet). I also have access to some of best studios in the mid Atlantic and achieving the best tone is always the goal. Tone is paramount.

Both units have strengths and weaknesses for sure and I'm quite confident both products will improve in the future. As I said, a deeper review is coming.

But to be honest, playing a Kemper 1st spoiled me quite a bit. It's like going from a real tube amp, to something trying to sound like a tube amp.

I personally can't see anyone who plays a Kemper 1st - then changing their mind and then going to an Axe FX. It's likely not going to happen in my opinion. I can see the opposite scenario happening, however.

To me - The Kemper sounds more organic, more tube-like, and tracks more like a real tube amp than the Axe FX. The Axe FX has an inherent "hi fi" quality about it across all patches. It is simply in the Axe FX DNA. It is neither bad, nor good....it is just there, however. And it is noticeable. The Axe FX is very hi fi and modern sounding. Some players may prefer this sound. But for a tube purist, the Kemper is going to win every time if comparing the two boxes in regards to real tube tone.

On the contrary, there is nothing hi fi about the Kemper. It comes as close to real tube tone of any modeler I have personally heard, played, or recorded with.

The strengths of the Axe FX : It has deeper and more complicated effects and currently a better live integration. That's really the only advantage I can see over the Kemper. And from what I hear, the dedicated foot switch is coming and in terms of effects, the Kemper has fantastic effects from what I have heard and used. And once again - from what I hear more effects are coming as well - and they are totally easy to program and very practical.

I also think that 95% of most pro guitar players will use and record with basic effects anyway - basic reverb, some delay and chorus. Anything beyond that can become overkill very quickly when tracking and can color things too much. Just listen to any music you hear on radio, TV, or film (very limited guitar effect processing). So I won't personally miss having my guitar sound like a spaceship. Although it is nice to have an extensive array of effects at your disposal, I can't see most of them being very practical.

I also found the Axe FX to be surprisingly and disappointingly noisy - and I'm not talking about the fan. I personally thought a lot of the patches and effects were noisy and the interface is definitely not easy to manage. But past all of that - what it really comes down to is TONE. And The Kemper has the better sounding box right now in my opinion. Maybe this will change in the future.

I read something about "How does it feel under the fingers"? After playing them both, honestly....anyone who notices a difference is just looking for a fight. They are both excellent and they felt the same to me. No issues here from either unit. They don't feel exactly like a tube amp, nor would I expect them to. But the difference is minimal.

People are talking about the Axe FX getting a version of profiling - I'm not sure this is going to change things much in regards to the underlying tone of the unit. It has this 'hi fi' thing going on and all of the sudden this new 'tone matching' is going to completely change what the unit sounds like?

Out of curiosity - I did some profiles of the Axe FX presets. Why? Because you can! I know this isn't recommended, but it copied the Axe FX to near perfection in minutes. Although profiling real tube amps is far superior, you can't dismiss just how powerful the Kemper really is! I mean, when you hear "profiling" for the 1st time it leaves you kinda speechless. Like did this really just happen???? Yes, it did. And then you profile tube amps! That crazy looking space toaster just cloned a $5,000 tube amp with incredible accuracy! This leaves you kinda speechless at first and it will fool you when choosing between the original and the profile. And the tone is ultimately the difference between the two.

....and in regards to Axe FX's upcoming profiling? Well, I for one hope it works great - because it took about 45 seconds to grab the tone from the Axe FX into the Kemper. So there is nothing from stopping this in the future either. If the Axe profiles something well, that's awesome. Just get an AXE FX and profile it with the Kemper. Done. And perhaps the AXE will be able to do the same thing to the Kemper. Obviously the AXE is playing catch up to the Kemper in regards to profiling. Who knows - maybe the AXE will actually do it better? But this a modeler that now wants to get into profiling. Where the Kemper is a profiler that does not want to become a modeler. Huge difference here.

And to me (at least for now) - the results show. By Kemper being the originators of profiling and taking the time to roll out this unit - they have the superior product in regards to delivering real tube amp tone. I'm not sure simply adding profiling is going to be the final answer to make the AXE FX sound as tube like & organic as the Kemper.

Both units deliver quality professional guitar tone and I don't think you can go wrong with either unit. But if you are a tube purist and tone freak like me, the Kemper is the clear choice in comparing the two.

We shall see what the future brings and I look forward to it.

Stay frosty,
JEL

Great review man!!! I totally agree. You described perfectly and in detail what I meant when I said that the Axe sounds with too much clarity and thinner in general (HIFI) and less like a tube amp.

Quote from Radley

AFX distortion is smoother and 'wider'.

What tube amp have you sat in front of that has 'smooth' distortion?
Can you A/B the smooth distortion with the distortion of the real tube amps modelled?

We know the Kemper distortion is accurate because studios and guitarists able to make Profiles have agreed the A/B comparison is literally 100% accurate.

For some guitarists including myself (intermediate) "smooth" distortion with un natural sustain will always appear to feel better to play, it hides mistakes and lousy technique....but plug into a real tube amp and that's not the way it sounds, it's not smooth, it's rough and tough and gritty and your fingers need to really work.

Which distortion sits better in the live mix & studio recordings?

Some of the mono Kemper patches have sounded much Better ad wider then some of the axes stereo cab patches. Ever since I have got the Kemper I am noticing the axe sound in every clip. Kemper is superior. It is more authentic If anyone has mixed both modelers and real amps though would know that the real amps breath and sit better 9/10 times.

Guys - I don't mean to start an argument, but neither the Kemper nor the AFXII completely nail the sound coming out of the speaker of a tube amp. Kemper adds some extra 'digital fur' and fluctuation/wavering, and AFX sometimes adds a certain glassiness some may not prefer. In no way is there a huge difference between the two, and even if there was, the AFXII has way more tools to make a necessary correction. The fact is, most tube amps on their own don't compare to the sounds we now hear on recordings - I want more than basic amp emulation... I want great sounds at my command, and that involves more than a Marshall and a mic. I contend that the final winner of this epic battle will be the company who can deliver the kinds of sounds we hear on our favorite recordings, with the requisite pre and post EQ, post effects, etc.

Quote from Radley

Guys - I don't mean to start an argument, but neither the Kemper nor the AFXII completely nail the sound coming out of the speaker of a tube amp. Kemper adds some extra 'digital fur' and fluctuation/wavering, and AFX sometimes adds a certain glassiness some may not prefer. In no way is there a huge difference between the two, and even if there was, the AFXII has way more tools to make a necessary correction. The fact is, most tube amps on their own don't compare to the sounds we now hear on recordings - I want more than basic amp emulation... I want great sounds at my command, and that involves more than a Marshall and a mic. I contend that the final winner of this epic battle will be the company who can deliver the kinds of sounds we hear on our favorite recordings, with the requisite pre and post EQ, post effects, etc.

. What are you talking about? Most tube amps don't sound as good as our favorite recordings??? Huh? Tube amps don't compare to what we hear on recordings you say? What do you think they are using to record? Certainly not modelers. No offense but you don't really know what you are talking about I believe and have moddeller itis. Of course tube amps sound great in recordings. It's what has been done for a long time now and will always be. When I profiled my amp I was nearly indistinguishable from the real recording. Actually close enough to make 50% of people not know which was real and which was Kemper.

Quote from MaxTwang

You need to try out some better tube amps!

OK, I'll go try out some better tube amps and report back to you.

Quote from Radley

Guys - I don't mean to start an argument,

It's not an argument, it's a discussion.

Please do not over-react: I am simply saying that the natural sound of tube amps is usually not good enough (by itself) to make a great modern recording. PS: I've been a rather successful LA studio musician for 25+ years. The Kemper's high frequencies give it away - we are listening to numbers, not a paper cone into a mic.

Having owned the Axe II and all previous Axe Standard and Ultra, and now the KPA, i'd stay they're very nice devices that make my life easier touring and recording, but in my opinion everything available today, there is still room for improvement, even with the profiling of the KPA I don't enjoy playing it as much as a good tube amp, honestly after playing it for a while there is something that I can't describe, but it's not the same as a good tube amp, I get sick of the sound, BUT like I said, both AXE II and KPA are very useful tools and i'm keeping both for now, and I'm very glad they exist, I think it will get very interesting in the near future when these units improve even more, they're getting closer but not there yet.

WORD.