So you are for paying royalties to the amp manufacturer?
The answer is in the last sentence from the paragraph above.
So you are for paying royalties to the amp manufacturer?
The answer is in the last sentence from the paragraph above.
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Ok I see where we disagree...
1.)The seller strictly forbids copying...
2.)The amp manufacturer does not strictly forbid it...
yet
1.)the seller used a device to *copy* an original (I bet he even orders amps at Thomann, profiles them, and sends them back).
2,)Now, you could use your device to copy *his* original - but that's not cool - the first case was cool though!
I don't see this as much different than buying studio time and using a particular amp in said studio to copy/record the sound of that amp in a song, then licensing that song to entities for use in other commercial projects. In both cases, you're copying the sound of an amp with the intent of producing a product that can be licensed commercially and used in other products for commercial gain. Whether you actually sell the end result is up to you, but either way the amp manufacturer isn't being paid royalties for the sound of their amps and the end product may or may not be licensed many times over to several entities afterward.
So according to you:
It's ok to profile an amp.
But it's not ok to profile a digital copy?
If the licensing agreement of a seller specifically forbids it, no. Why would it be?
Nope.
So?
So that's the difference.
Display MoreYou gotta be kidding me...
I straight out said that it is hypocrisy to label profilling of a digital copy as "unethical" - while labelling the profilling of a physical original as "ethical"!
The KPA is designed to profile!
We use that feature!
So profile anything that can be profiled!
Do amp manufacturers have licensing agreements that forbid profiling?
That's what I'm saying!
KPA is profilling anything you can with that device.
The KPA is designed to copy.
Where do I say that profilling is piracy?
It seemed to be implied by your comment regarding the hypocrisy of licensing profiles while copying "something made by someone else".
So you support someone that copys something and then adds a note to his copy that this copy is HIS? But he copied something made by someone else (with sweat, tears, knowledge, years of training, time and taste etc.) in the first place?
To me that hypocrisy
So when you support that digitally copying something is acceptable - go all the way - not halfway!
I thought we just went through this? I was under the impression you didn't perceive profiling as piracy.
Display MoreHmmm... copying an entire song (as in an mp3) and earn money with that would be piracy - I think we all agree on that.
Copying a certain setting of an amp - we all do it with the KPA. Some choose to earn money with that.
Copying the copy of a seller - well, I don't see harm in that, It's the same as copying the setting of an amp. It's the KPA-way! But, someone could choose to start earning money with that as well...
Copying an entire amp perfeclty (with EQ's and gain stages and all)... difficult to say if that's ethical. But, I have a Kemper - so if the Kemper was able to do that - I would support it (so would all KPA owners)...
Sorry, I think I got lost somewhere - where exactly do we disagree?
I was initially under the impression that you were claiming the KPA copies sounds and presenting rhetorical questions which implied copying sounds equated to piracy. If that's not the case, then nevermind.
As for creating a perfect clone of an entire amp, I can potentially see legal ramifications if 1) someone started marketing / giving away said clones and 2) assuming the cloning process required the use of the original amp to create the clone vs. creating it from scratch.
Exactly what I said!
Well, there's copying a sound (eg. MP3) and copying a sound(eg. sampling), and profiling falls into neither category, in my opinion. MP3's involves duplicating pre-recorded material and sampling involves recording an instrument or duplicating such a recording. In a way, what Kemper is doing is a bit like what Compaq did when they legally created the first 100% IBM-PC compatible computer by reverse engineering the IBM-PC's BIOS, except KPA profiles aren't perfect copies of the amps they're based on.
Yes you are... it's your recording
Thus, if I'm free to use the sounds from an amp to create a product that can be sold or freely distributed, I don't see an ethical conflict with selling or giving away profiles.
Difficult to answer... let me think a minute.
You *sold* the recording... done!
What the other one makes with your recording is no longer of your business IMO - so you get no roylaties.
Now, should Marshall get a royalty?
No as well. Its royalty was being sold to the creater of the music. Done...
And are you legally free to give your recording away to said movie studio should you choose to?
Imagine a softsynth. You could sample it and sell those samples. This is stricty forbidden by most companies.
A profile is an amalgam rather than a perfect 1:1 copy. It includes the guitar and anything else in the signal chain.
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I dunno... what do you think?
Is it piracy to copy a sound from a device?
Is it piracy to copy a sound from a human (seller)?
Is copying = piracy?
Well, we're using said device!
Answer my specific question:
If I create a song using a Marshall amp and then turn around and sell that recording to a movie studio that makes money on that recording by using it in a movie, should I be required to pay a royalty to Marshall? Yes or no?
If an artist buys an amp, records a song, and then licenses that song out to other companies to use for marketing purposes, movies, etc., is that artist ripping off the amp manufacturer if they don't pay them royalties? Once I buy an amp, am I free to use it to produce works that can be sold to other entities who will themselves license the product? In my opinion, yes. Studios and artists have been doing this for decades. What's the difference between creating a profile and giving it away / selling it vs. creating a recording using an amp with the intent of giving it away / licensing it to others who in turn intend to use it commercially in their own product?
So it copies a sound instead of the amp... semantics!
Is it piracy when an artist creates a recording using an amp at a studio that he later licenses to others for commercial use in their projects?
Display MoreI haven't read the whole thread but quite honestly:
We're using a copy machine and copy the sound of another device. Label this any way you want! Is it ethical? You decide!
BUT THINK ABOUT THIS:
I generally disagree with people selling profiles - the KPA is a device that copies a sound from another device. The seller sells his copy!
Personally, I could copy the commercial sellers sound and sell this as well. It's exactly the same thing. I wouldn't object to anyone doing so.
So, either you agree to the whole concept of copying/pirating (even profilling the profiles of others and make it yours) or you choose another device...
The KPA doesn't copy amps in their entirety, it clones the sound of an amp at a specific setting. Again, it's akin to taking a screengrab of a movie rather than creating a copy.
I feel that Henning has missed the point of the Kemper, and used the wrong comparison to justify his feelings.
However, and I respect his feelings, but sometimes he talks so much that he gets slightly off topic and this is where his logic becomes flawed. He needs to state his point first in a short concise way, then ramble about whatever he wants too.
I understand his position, but it's a futile point because he's suggesting that in order to use a profile the fair solution is to potentially pay royalties not just to the amp manufacturers, but to the manufacturers of the components inside of the amp(tubes, diodes, etc.) or at least that's what he was offering for consideration. It's a silly point because no one who records music in a studio and then licenses it for commercial use in movies, marketing material, etc. pays royalties to any of those entities. Studios certainly don't pay royalties to amp manufacturers even though they use those amps on a daily basis to create products that will be licensed for use in other projects.
Maybe for Kemper II.... As the others say, you'd need to morph between multiple different profiles
That would be great.
I don't have the data, but my guess is that the majority of those who bough the KPA bought mainly for the amp modeling and weren't focused on effects.
That rings true for me. I bought the KPA for its amp profiling, not its effects capabilities. That isn't to say they shouldn't try to improve the effects capabilities, but that wouldn't necessarily interest me, personally.
The amp fanatics, even thought they're amongst the worst, they won't find you here unless one of the AXE FX fan boys tell them about his. In case you're not aware, you need to never ever announce your divorce to any fractal product. in case you become deaf and blind and end up having a fling or marriage to one of those; the AXE FX fans will find you. They scour the whole internet and sign up to any forum just to attack anyone who dares put any of the fractal products down. I should go and hide now before they come for me, hush hush, keep it a secret ,( I said the AXE FX II sucked compared to Kemper a few times and now I have to go in hiding). I hope non of the amp guys see your post.
Anyone who owns a piece of gear and feels it's being criticized unfairly will typically jump in and defend it, and that applies to Kemper owners as well. I own and love both, Axe and Kemper, and I see this sort of behavior on lots of forums. However, like the Fractal forum, most of the community here is great. There are critical fanatics on practically every gear forum, though.