I wonder if some of the components are different as time progressed. Surely in 5 years, so chips or memory are no longer available from the original build.
Good point.
We already know the black chicken knob produces a more vintage tone than the silver. 
Hi,
Curiosity question just crossed my mind.....
Players often assume that because something is digital that every unit sounds the same. I am wondering if there is anything about the KPA design and/or history where one unit might sound different from the next. Software being assumed equal.
Or do the KPA's all sound imperceptibly identical as most players would naturally assume?
Sonic
A bit of a tangent but since it has now been mentioned.....
It might be nice to see a refinement procedure that allowed both the gain and the tone knobs to mimic that of the amp. I could envision this by having a refinement procedure where the KPA would start slowly lighting up the LEDS around the desired knob and a person could start moving the corresponding knob on the amp while the KPA sends it reference signals. This way the KPA could learn how each knob actually impacts the tone. Same for the gain knob. In theory this would be really cool. in reality, I'm not sure if it would help or hurt things because the way an amp's tone stack is often designed (and how the prescience is designed) often times they are not statically linear in behavior (in fact usually not). One given knob will behave completely different depending on how some of the other knobs are set. They are often tonally interactive to each other. Having said all that, maybe at least a feature that refines the gain knob might be a worthwhile effort as that is less likely to have wide swinging interactions, all else in the tone stack being left alone. Anyway, just tossing it out there, even though I suspect somebody already suggested this by now.
No no, that only implies that there is a difference between tweaking the source amp for a les paul and tweaking it for a strat. That has nothing to do with the profiler's ability to accurately represent the source amp.
This is where we'll have to agree to disagree. Without a test (or the designer to weigh in) I suspect Z may very well be discernable. Yes, the KPA will reproduce something, but is it the same something a tube amp would produce once the guitar is changed? If you stop and think about it, why is there a refinement process if not to get the profile more accurate - based on the guitar being used. If the guitar is not potentially important then why not just have the profiler run through a more detailed variety of test tones? I maintain the guitar matters. And as such, if a particular profile was made never even "hearing" a different guitar (especially something as different as a Stat vs. Les Paul) the resulting profile is going to sound more different when changing guitars than if those same guitars were swapped on the amp itself.
Let's try this angle:
Delta X is the tone & feel difference between the same tube amp played with a Strat and a Les Paul.
Delta Y is the tone & feel difference between a profile of the same amp played with the same Strat and Les Paul.
Z is the difference between the two above. I maintain Z is not likely 0 (in tone and/or feel). However, with the Transposer Effect Z could be significantly reduced.
I think the core debate here is how large really is Z ? Somebody would have perform a test. As somebody pointed out earlier, some profile makers are building rig packs with both Strats and Les Pauls. This kind of implies that Z plays a role in tone and/or feel.
I think I now see the error in my explanation....
First though, there is a refinement step during the profiling process involving a guitar, is there not? That uses the guitar signal, not a generated signal, so in that instance the guitar plays a role. I was under the impression that most commercial profiles utilize this refinement process, however maybe this is a wrong assumption?
But more importantly....
When people buy a profile they usually do so based upon what they heard listening to clips. If they want their results to sound very close to the demo clips they need to be using the same guitar. But that's not usually the case. A guitar transposer effect would allow this. In fact, as I mentioned already, the refinement portion of the profiling process could save a footprint of the guitar so the KPA could later come close to emulating the original guitar used to create (refine) the profile. Would it be exact? No. But it could allow the KPA to at least adjust for gain coming out of the pickups, and some sort of EQ shelving/boosting in the top/mid/lower registers which should result in a much closer replication = all with the punch of a button (the Guitar Transposer effect).
This would result in more happy profile purchasers, which only helps to strengthen further the rep of the KPA..
Lastly, think about this: How cool would it be to be able to switch up guitars and have the tone remain similar? Maybe you spend hours tweaking an amp setup, then build your own profile only to later want to use a different guitar while recording or performing. With the Guitar Transposer feature, simply hit a button and it will help get you close to the original. You don't have to try and adjust a bunch of KPA settings, or go back and set up and dial in the rig again, and re-create another profile. Nope, you just hit a single button. Actually, the more I think about it, it would be nice to have a mix knob to be able to choose just how much of Transposer effect is imposed.
Anyway, again, just tossing the idea out there...
This is wrong, sorry.The only time a guitar comes into play is when you dial in your amp for a certain guitar.
What I meant to say was the guitar is a part of the total chain for which the KPA is trying to profile and to later reproduce the sound. In other words, the guitar is indeed a key element of the tone just like the amp, cab speakers and mics. When a profile is later used by a player, the one changing variable typically becomes the guitar.. If I am off base and entirely missing something then please explain. Unless you are suggesting the KPA is already using some sort of filtering logic to remove the guitar from the resulting tone logic in a way that the KPA knows how to reproduce the tone regardless of guitar? That it will sound no different than when using a tube amp with two different guitars?
Another feature idea to float, I'm sure the forum will tell me if I'm off base......
As I understand it, the KPA's total profiling process takes into account the guitar as one of the key elements in how the tone is constructed. And a final profile will not sound the same if a Strat is plugged into a profile constructed using a Les Paul. More difference than if those same guitars were plugged into an actual tube amp. In other words, to get the tones the profile maker intended, the guitar really matters. That being said....
What about a Guitar Transposer effect? It would transpose whatever guitar a player is using to more closely mimic the guitar used to create the profile so that everything in the KPA's chain after that point would then behave much more closely to the original profile makers tone. This would require some work on Kemper's side to take some type of a snapshot of the guitar during the profile process (possibly during the refinement process) and save it as part of the internal profile data. Then, if a user decides to turn on the Guitar Transpose effect it will trigger the KPA to engage the correct logic to alter the incoming signal to more closely match the footprint of the original guitar that was used to create the profile. The final tone coming out of the KPA being a very close match to the original tone the profile maker intended.
Thoughts??
Sonic
I like this idea. It works a bit like my Eventide H9 pedal where you get something like 5 or 10 minutes free demo of any of the H9's algorithms per day. If you like it after a couple of listens you buy it.
Yes. I hadn't planned on getting into the details and security aspects nor the exact mechanism for a demo marker. But now that this has been brought up, the software utility Kemper would provide could allow the profile maker to tag a file with a date in the metadata that sets the expiration based on what the profile maker wants. They could also decide if they want a beep or not every X seconds (which they could choose parameter X as well). The date and demo marker and beep duration could actually be hashed and encrypted into one entry in the meta data for security. Lots of ways to do this but I was leaving it to the Kemper engineers to decide if they thought the basic feature concept made sense. In other words, there would now be a new class of profiles - demo profiles. And the profile makers would then simply state on their websites what to expect - maybe they offer free, no-limit demos (like today), or maybe add a beep, and/or maybe time-expiration.
Again, just floating this for consideration, maybe this feature idea makes sense and maybe it doesn't.
Most of the big sellers have packs of several profiles available. Which seller were you looking for?
No, not Rig Exchange. Places like TopJimi, etc. I don't remember all the profile makers I browsed. I was looking at various sites and packs and they often have a hoard of combinations within the various profiles inside the packs. Yet any free demos (if any at all) we very sparse in comparison. That's what prompted my thinking on a new feature idea to make it easier for users to try out a profile before purchase.
i must really be missing something because I looked at some profiles at a few well known pay-for commercial grade profile makers and they aren't offering any of them for free. That's why I thought up this feature idea in the first place.
The most I saw was maybe a free profile or two from the profile maker IN TOTAL. In other words a sample of their work. But NOT a profile from each amp for which profiles are being sold And even within a rig pack there could be different mics and cabinets, etc. So I respectfully disagree entirely that there are free offerings that negate the need for the feature I'm proposing.
Tell me this, how would this feature hurt anybody? Would it not only help to allow profile makers to let people try their profiles and be happy with a purchase? And to weed out those that are trying to charge for a sub-par profile?
Hi,
It would be great if there was a way for the KPA to recognize a demo profile so it could insert a beep at fixed intervals (maybe every 15 seconds). Why? Because it would allow people who create and sell top quality profiles to offer a demo for free so users could try out the profile before purchase. This could have huge implications in helping further cultivate business for both profile makers and Kemper. And make uses very happy to be able to test drive the sound of a profile before committing to an investment.
This could be accomplished by having Kemper make available a small software utility that would simply place a demo-marker inside the meta-data of an existing profile for later recognition as a demo. A later OS rev could then recognize any demo-marked profiles and insert the beep.
Sonic
So did the DSP date change post OS rev 3.3 or is it still November 2015? Asked another way, if somebody upgraded to the new OS rev (what is it now 5.x?) what would the DSP date then be?
Hi,
After I let the KPA format a USB drive, is it ok to use that drive to store other files, as long as they aren't in the 3 main directories created by the device? For example, can I create some directories to store manuals, original rigs packs, songs, etc without messing up the operations of the device when it comes to import/export, backup/restore, etc?
I'm assuming the answer is YES, but before I find out the hard way thought I should inquire....
Thanks,
Sonic
I don't think there's any problem with syncing at all. As long as the metronome is stable to the level of a human drummer (more or less). Any syncing issue is at bpm level (like, if you played a couple of BPM too slow/fast), not smpte level
Trust me on this, there can be a problem. Shouldn't rely on BPM alone, there always needs to be a master clock or all kinds of alignment and/or sync issues may occur. Variations of drift. Some more severe than others. And the longer the song is the worse it can get. Implied in the statement of always needing a master also includes dropping the click onto an audio track. Such a track in itself would then be sync'd to the master clock. Using a MIDI click track is another option but still needs to use a common master clock one way or another.
Many ways to skin this cat but relying only on BPM is not a reliable one. (Unless the metronome has a sync mechanism like S/PDIF, but that's not usually the case)
Good to hear that your starting to experience the KPA. What's the verdict on your's, all good, a new unit I hope.
No verdict quite yet, still awaiting on some pieces of information to come back around. But at least things are leaning in the right direction.
Nope non-amplified version with black chicken knob. Sonic, man I feel your pain but you are putting yourself through to much stress (at least in my reading of your posts) to figure out whether your unit is brand new or not. Bought mine used and never had a problem. If it was new and you doubted that, the time you spent in detective work, could have been spent enjoying the unit. Which you evidently aren't. No offense just want you to enjoy something that is a wonderful piece of gear for sure. Good luck
Thanks.. I don't mind the research, it's all a learning experience. I learned a whole lot about the KPA's I wouldn't have otherwise. And now there's more information out there to help any others who may have concerns. I've only been able to fire up the device and start using it the last couple days anyway due to holiday guests. Very interesting device indeed....
Andy, whatever happened with this?...
From looking around online it seems maybe the change-over to silver chicken knobs only occurred on units with a built-in amplifier. The non-amplifier versions retaining a black knob. Which would make sense as an easy way to distinguish the two classes from simply looking at the front.
Just a theory at this point though....
Anyone with a non-amplified version have a silver chicken knob?
Welcome, I am a new KPA owner myself and have been studying the manual. I recall reading something about an aux input which would allow you to do exactly as you describe. Here is what the manual says, I recommend you download from the site for further details (ref manual for OS rev 5.x page 50)
"The Auxiliary Input function allows you to feed a stereo signal, such as a mp3-player, into your Profiler to play along with it. In the Output/Master menu, the Auxiliary Input function is equipped with three controls: one to feed the aux signal to the main outputs as well as S/PDIF OUT, and two others to feed it to the Monitor and Headphone output. This allows you, for instance, to add an additional monitor signal to your headphone output, while the main output stays unaffected."
HOWEVER, having said all this, what you are looking to do is going to likely cause timing/alignment issues (not due to the KPA but due to the general approach). You want to record the click to a track and then use that to record against. Otherwise, if you are going to use an external metronome it really needs to be clocked into the system so everything stays in proper sync.
Sonic
