Posts by cags12

Hi

@Tilman
@Gitarrenschlumpf

I wonder if there is an option for FRFR on the camper 212 kit in the link below. Perhaps the kit plus the crossover and tweeter? Looking for stereo FRFR DIY with the 212 cab format.

https://www.shop.ritteramps.de…mper-212-speaker-kit.html

Quote from Tritium

My opinion (opinion, mind you) is that if you want the traditional "amp-in-the-room" guitar cab experience, simply turn off the Cab Module on your KPA and connect it to a traditional guitar cab (although you may need an external amp). However, this is going to limit you tonal flexibility, as the physical guitar cabinet is going to be contributing the majority of your over-all tone/sound.

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Yes, that´s right. FRFR and GFR can only replace the sound of a guitar cab, that´s been recorded through a microfone. To get the feeling of a real guitar cabinet, is the holy grail, everyone is searching for. IMHO

I do not own a KPA yet but I have read about the "Pure Cab" feature introduced that aims to sort of remove the microphone feeling and give a better amp in the room experience with an FRFR solution.

How do you find this feature, does it really help on this that we are discussing?

Thanks man!

Quote from Da Vinci

Brrrr so excited! Just saw a 10% discount on a big Dutch webshop so vistited the website. The aren't Kemper dealer anymore for a while, but I knew they had a power rack and non-power rack in B-stock (only power-cable missing) a little while ago. Normal prices here are € 1700 / € 2100, B-stock dit 100 less.
On the Kempers there was an extra discount of 15% (instead of 10% overall) which made them € 1368 (non powered) € 1614 (powered). Quite a good deal I guess. Couldn't made up my mind between the two so went for powered....

pfffffffff

Did I say 'm excited yet?

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Can you share the name of the store with me? I am looking to pull the trigger as well and that price would be great.

Quote from Tritium

While frequencies greater than 10.5 kHz are of diminishing (in)significance for electric guitar, there can still be a lot of character living in the 6 - 9 kHz bandwidth, depending on the particular guitar speaker/cab.

Coming back to the original discussion.

Reading that sentence on the quote, you are basically saying what I thought initially that a GFR Cab that has a x-over point over 10.5 kHz would be more than enough to reproduce any profiled/modelled Cab. That would bring me back to my original question in the topic title.

I am interested in knowing the point of view of @Gitarrenschlumpf about this topic. if we are not playing tracks or any other instruments, would not a GFR Cab be enough and FRFR overkill? (Strictly speaking about guitar).

Quote from Tritium

I am not sure why this necessarily has any advantage over a coaxial system which has a properly implemented cross-over circuit. On my XiTone passive 1x12 FRFR, there is a switch which provides a -3 dB pad on the HF driver, which can be activated to achieve more of a "GFR" frequency range and response, if desired. I actually never use this pad / switch.

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Tha advantage to a coax in GFR-mode:

The coax speaker has 2 different voice coils. The tweeter sits behind the LF-driver. So all the stuff above the x-over point comes out of the speaker a little later. In GFR mode also, if it´s just a 3 dB pad on the HF.

The GFR cabs in the way we build it have only one voice coil. So the whole sound comes out at the same time.

I believe you guys are comparing apples with oranges here.

The coaxial design on the XiTone I take is to achieve FRFR, not GFR and what @Gitarrenschlumpf mentions on the Blueamps with a broadband driver, is restricted to achieve GFR. Both devices use a 2 driver approach for FRFR, one coaxial an the other non-coaxial. Or I am wrong?

My understanding is that to achieve GRFR the XiTone only reduces the HF with the -3 dB pad, and Blueamps totally shuts down the HF driver. right?

Quote from Tritium

The ability to accurately reproduce the unique behavior occurring at higher frequencies (Full Range) is just as important as reproducing the signal with transparency and neutrality (Flatness).

This part flipped upside down my head :). I do not quite understand. So there are high frequencies on the range of Full range >10.500 that the profiler captured during the profile process that are reproduced again when playing even though the reference sound did not come from a full range system (regular guitar speaker)?

sorry if this is a stupid question

Thank you all for your input and welcoming. Wanting to quote you all but the post would become huge so I will manually quote you inline.

I must clarify something that perhaps I failed to explain correctly.

1. GRFR (guitar range, flat response) is NOT equal to GR (NON-flat response or regular Speaker cab). That being said, I want to highlight that the intention here is not to process the audio through 2 Cabs (modelled and real). only the modelled and the flat response one (GRFR or FRFR).

As an example: let's take an example of the Camper 112 +

• full range flat response mode: 72-16.000 Hz (-3 dB)
• guitar flat response mode: 72-10.500 Hz (-3 dB)

If I have a profile that uses a Mesa Cab with Celestion speaker where the Frequency response is say 1000-9000Hz (not real values)
Another profile of a Marshall Cab with whatever other speaker where the Frequency response is say 500- 8000Hz (not real values)

Would not the GRFR be more than enough for this? In what cases my signal would reach Full range levels (>10.500) if the source was not there? do I make sense?

After my clarification I will dare to ask again: Do we really need FRFR as opposed to GRFR if we are only looking for electric guitar applications?

@barefly - I believe you got it right what I referred to. So, the only issue would be if I wanted to use Bass guitar or acoustics?

edit - @Tritium - Reading again, your last 2 paragraph you mention the same.

2. Sincerely I would have to come back at the post I have read and quote them to be precise. However, the solely fact that the CAB manufacturers add some Active EQ or bypass twitters to make the sound GRFR tells me this is true. Well perhpas with good profiles this is not the case.

3. The solution of the Youtube video was interesting only If I did not have any other FRFR CAB/PA available and I wanted to quickly test other modelled Amps/Cab profiles of the KPA. By no means I believe this is a good permanent solution.

@Tritium - thank you for your detailed insight on this scenario, it gives me more to think. And yes, I was aware it was not converting to Full range but evening the frequency to make it a pseudo Flat response on the range that specific CAB/Speaker works.

In any case, I'd just simply want to know if (if I wanted to) the KPA could apply the inverse EQ of the real Cab response as the Axe FX or a dedicated Equalizer?

@jpoelmans - I am not planning to play much live so the option of going to the FOH is not really applicable for me and for that reason I am looking for a FRFR or GRFR CAB. Not considering PA's yet because I like the feeling and look of conventional Guitar cabs. However, what you say is totally agreeable in regards using modellers to FOH.

This is my first post and would like to say Hi to everyone.

Quick Intro: Although I am not new to modelling (I have owned a PODX3 for years), I am fairly new to the world of FRFR. Now that I am considering buying a KPA and wanting to take full advantage of the modelling, I have dug into researching about all the FRFR technologies and have read tons of topics that have made me wondering some things.

I have learned that current FRFR CAB manufacturers have also some either Passive or Active (DSP) GRFR options. i.e. Camper 112 and 212 (bypassing the tweeter), Gemini 2 (DSP), Matrix 112 (DSP), etc.

I totally understand the concept of Full Range vs Guitar Range as well as the Flat Response part which I believe is the most important part of the equation as far as I understand.

What I am trying to understand is the following:
1. If modellers/profilers mainly look to, well, model/profile Guitar Amps and Cabs which use Non Flat Guitar Range Speakers, why do we really need the extra range available on FRFR Cabs?
The Flat response part is a given so lets ignore that as well as other applications like playing music or other non guitar instruments.

2. On FRFR I have read that the high frequencies make stuffs sound non optimal specially for High Gain sounds.
Where does this high frequencies come from if the profiled sound did not have it? and why do we want to keep using FRFR if that is an issue?

3. Although not optimal, the experiment on the link below seem very interesting to me and supposedly Fractal can do it without extra EQ gear.Can the KPA flatten the Freq Response of a profiled CAB?

Answers to this question would give me a better understanding that would allow me to make a better decision when buying my gear.