Differences between profiles for recording and live shows

    Hi guys!


    For seven years me and my guitarist played on a set consisting of: Mesa Dual + Maxon OD808 + Mesa 4x12 and we simply loved that sound. We decided to switch to Kempers without the poweramp. On stage we use monitors FRFR. Last saturday we performed live and were f****** dissappointed with the sound. The sound was great as far as our studio monitors went, but live? That was a completely different story - it all sounded weak, without a punch, the guitars sounded as if played from a CD. They were not powerful enough to sound through the bass guitar or even a drum kick.


    Where is the problem? Is there a possibility to get close to Kempers sounding „alive” while playing live? Do I need to tweak EQ somehow on stage? Amp up the mids, lows or pickattack, less presence and treble? Mayby I should blend mics? e906 + SM57, and make a littlebit darker profile. When the profile in studio monitor is fine, on stage monitor sounds very noisily.


    I was also at soundcheck Amon Amarth before the show. Guitars sounded terrible, but with the whole band was beautiful.




    Do you have any way to do this?


    Thanks!

    If you like the sound / air pumping of a 4x12" - why not using it?
    Smaller monitors will not sound the same as a full blown 4x12".



    Yes, the Kemper will sound like a CD - because you my have recorded (profiled) your old rig 'like for a CD' - e.g. close miked via a SM57.


    In case you used the same signal chain as you use with your 'real rig' (same Maxon, amp, cab, mic, mic placement ..) and then use the profile - your audience should get about the same sound as they are used to get from you.


    What YOU hear/feel is a different story - since you normally don't hear the coloring of a mic / sound of your monitors.



    What can be done?


    a) use your 4x12" as monitor (you need a power amp for this)
    or
    b) create new profiles - profile in the same room where the amp is and change mic's / mic placement until the sound of your profile (via your FRFR monitors) is as close as possible to the sound of your real rig.
    (use the same - high - level your would use for live use)

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    It could be...


    a) you betrayed yourself: when working on the profiles, you monitors were not loud enough. Human ears are not FRFR. Maybe you dialed in too much Bass and Treble (Loudness) which is cool at low volumes. The sound-engineer maybe put a low cut in, so all thats left is Treble, which is eaten up by the cymbals of your drummer...


    b) lousy/incorrectly set up PA/monitors


    c) a lousy engineer



    Did you have your own PA/Monitors? Which FRFRs do you use? Did you listen to the sound from the Main PA? Also weak? Do you have your own FOH Engineer? Do you remember how the monitor sounded when you used your Mesas? Or did you monitor yourself only via the Mesas, so that the silent/clean new monitoring system is just unfamiliar?


    Cheers


    Cheers

    I run through my sounds at home but then test them with the band at rehearsal and up at live performance levels...everything changes when the band starts playin

    TONE IS PARAMOUNT :D8) 8o

    So pstry, I assume you mean that you disliked what you heard onstage? Where you using the monitors you used at rehearsals, or were they provided by the stage service?


    Monitors may sound very different from each others, so if you make your sounds on one they not necessarily translate properly.
    In case you were using the same cabs, the issue most probably lies in the different volumes at which you played, as others pointed out. Provided that monitors were used/placed in the same manner (wedge, backline etc.).

    I never fine tune a guitar sound itself - but play some playback and then tweak.


    You could use a recording from your band (without your guitar) and then select the best profile / tweak the kemper.

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    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Thanks for such a quick response!
    1. I decide to use kemper because my old rig was:
    - Mesa DR
    - decimator
    - g-system
    - wireless
    - midi system
    - power conditioner
    +/- 70kg x 2 (my other guitarist)
    I'm touring with my band (http://www.thesixpounder.com) and we are looking for the best way to make our life easier! :)
    2. I have my own Yamaha DXR12"


    3. I don't care that no air is added as in 4x12. I am aware that on the fronts, the sound is picked up the microphone from the speaker cabinet :)
    4. In my opinion the profiles that are darker sound better from the front of the scene.
    I just wanted to know if you have any suggestions when it comes to the differences in the profiles for playing live. Certainly those that are good for the studio, they will not good for the show.

    Quote from pstry

    4. In my opinion the profiles that are darker sound better from the front of the scene.


    Again, I think this is at least partly a function of not tweaking at the proper volume. This is the Fletcher-Munson effect:


    [Blocked Image: http://www.webervst.com/fm1.gif]


    The quieter you listen to something, the more your ears want the bass and treble bumped up. As you turn up louder, you need less and less bass and treble.

    I don't have a problem with my sound on stage. I don't care about it. I went before the show with my wireless system in front of the stage and the sound and that was disgusting. So the problem Is to make good profile for live. I'm looking the way to make a realistic, natural, hudge, biffy sound (drop C, B, drop A tunnig) for shows.

    Quote from pstry

    I don't have a problem with my sound on stage. I don't care about it. I went before the show with my wireless system in front of the stage and the sound and that was disgusting. So the problem Is to make good profile for live. I'm looking the way to make a realistic, natural, hudge, biffy sound (drop C, B, drop A tunnig) for shows.


    As others have said, are you able to trust the FOH system at the venue you were at?

    Quote from Robman

    Bear in mind that the channels on the FOH desk may be set flat but an auxiliary Graphic may be different


    Really not sure what you're trying to imply here. First its HIGHLY unlikely the channel being sent out the main bus and to FOH was "flat", and second by auxiliary i assume you're assuming the venue was using the FOH desks aux's as monitor sends, but OP has already stated that it was the sound at FOH he was unhappy with.