New NAMM product? This sounds insane.

    I do not visit the fractal forum and TGP frequently. The last time I read some posts of Scott talking about the KPA and I have to say they were all very fair. And after all we live in free countries where everybody can make up opinions on the KPA and Axe.
    I think the Axe has the problem that it cannot be tested at music stores, so the opinions on the internet are very important for them. The KPA on the other hand stands for itself because everybody can test it.


    In my opinion Cliff and Christoph should try to convince tube amp players to check out thier products not fighting each other because the market of digital guitar amps has a huge potential. However a little bit of fair competition is not a bad thing :D


    Edit:
    Finally I think the Axe FX profiles were not the reason for Cliff because his post was on august 21 the incident with the Axe Profiles was already in Jan or Feb.
    Maybe there is another company involved otherwise the marketing campaign has to be a secret one which makes no sense at all. So there is no longer a reason for me to write about it 8)

    Edited 3 times, last by Kermit ().

    Reputation in this digital world is everything for a moderator. If your reputation is infected better back of beeing a moderator for a while. Trying to cure it with bold letters or shouting or preaching your innocense will only worsen the infection.
    My advise: Stay out, Keep out and hide for a while. Maybe then people will believe or respect you again. Good luck.

    In my opinion the culture of a group starts at the top. In the case of Fractal, everyone follows their leaders steps and we see what happens. In the case of TGP, the bullshit that goes on where noone can say anything remotely negative about the AxeFx in a Kemper thread without it turning into a shit show shows that the culture has been allowed to ferment and grow by the owners of the site. This isn't so bad but you when you have the Fractal Police headed by you, Scott, poking their heads in to make sure everyone knows about the aliasing in the KPA and letting everyone know that their thoughts on the KPA are only opinion on every single KPA thread, it gets a little tired.
    So believe Scott if you want, alot of us have seen what goes on and know better! I think it's great that we can talk openly about it without worry of being called trolls our getting our posts/threads deleted.

    This all just reminds me of the Pepsi vs Coca-Cola wars and the commercial where the guy from one cola company is in a cafe drinking the competitions brand. This is very entertaining! It all comes down to the consumer who makes the final decision and the company can market in a manner which they wish. I think it's very obvious who "takes the higher road" in this campaign. Scott, take great comfort in that you are regarded as a strong voice in the gear community, are you running for president? Didn't think so, so quit trying to convince us of who you think you are and who we know you are in regards to your affiliation. Whether you did or did not say anything positive or negative about Kemper is irrelevant in this thread, or any other thread for that matter. It is a discussion that has no final destination, it will run round and round. These topics go on everywhere; XBOX vs PS3, PC vs MAC, Samsung vs Sony, Latino women vs Asian women (Asian hands down!) The sinple fact is there are two top of the line guitar products for people to choose from aside from tubes and one owner is being dignified and the other not so much. Problem is, there seems to be a trend with the latter; now there is an excuse again for his behaviour because he doesn't rule the block. There is a new kid on the block that sells better candy....and boy is it SWEET! :thumbup:

    Quote

    In my opinion the culture of a group starts at the top. In the case of Fractal, everyone follows their leaders steps and we see what happens. In the case of TGP, the bullshit that goes on where noone can say anything remotely negative about the AxeFx in a Kemper thread [...]


    I don't think so. Everyone is responisble for themselves gear is no religion. I have bought a KPA and have some posts in this forum, so I have to agree with everything CK says ?(
    Some people here are pushing this rivalry. And this is exacty the same thing Cliff does by posting such conspiracy theories. You can be better like that.
    If you don't like the people and their attitude at the fractal forum or TGP why are you supporting these sites by visting and posting?
    Do you need approval from Axe FX users?
    Have more self confidence and enjoy your KPA :D

    Edited once, last by Kermit ().

    Quote from Kermit

    I don't think so. Everyone is responisble for themselves gear is no religion. I have bought a KPA and have some posts in this forum, so I have to agree with everything CK says ?(
    Some people here are pushing this rivalry. And this is exacty the same thing Cliff does by posting such conspiracy theories. You can be better like that.
    If you don't like the people and their attitude at the fractal forum or TGP why are you supporting these sites by visting and posting?
    Do you need approval from Axe FX users?
    Have more self confidence and enjoy your KPA :D


    No, think you misunderstood. I'm saying that the leaders of the forums set the tone. Christoph doesn't act the way the leaders of the Fractal forum and TGP act so we are left to comment/discuss in any way we see fit! It's wonderful!
    I don't frequent these sites. I was registered at FAS when I had an Axe, never go there now. I was on TGP to discuss the KPA. Everytime I tried to, however, in runs the Fractal Army telling me that my opinions are only my opinions.... and more than likely wrong 8|
    Also, not pushing any rivalry, I've owned an Axe and never have said anything bad about it. I will comment when BS is spewed forth because I am free to do so! I take issue to over moderation and blatant lying in the guise of being the Fact and Truth Brigade.

    Sigh, let me start by saying I absolutely love the Kemper...



    There have been quite a few new Kemper users over at TGP behaving in the exact manner which is being lambasted here. Its disappointing to say the least. Let haters hate. When/if someone poo-poos your toy and you get upset about it, post a clip to shut them up. I will gladly stand up and defend Scott and the TGP Digital Modeling Forum anytime as in general its the most level, unbiased, on topic, and active forum dedicated to digital gear that I've found on the net. If not for that sight, I doubt I would even know what the Kemper was at this point and probably would not have bought one. Sure there are a few bad apples, but all the crying about forum bias at TGP is just stupid. There are something like 7 threads on the first page of the TGP digital forum right now with Kemper in the title, all of them positive save a few posts in one thread. If all you want is all Kemper, all the time, all hugs and kisses this forum should suffice. If your interested at all in all the different digital gear on the market, head to the TGP digital forum. If you don't like specific users, add them to your ignore list and you'll never have to read a single post from them. But otherwise, as Scott would say, put on your big boy pants as folks will voice their opposing opinions and are passionate about the gear they own. That's life...

    Quote from Will_Chen

    Sigh, let me start by saying I absolutely love the Kemper...



    There have been quite a few new Kemper users over at TGP behaving in the exact manner which is being lambasted here. Its disappointing to say the least. Let haters hate. When/if someone poo-poos your toy and you get upset about it, post a clip to shut them up. I will gladly stand up and defend Scott and the TGP Digital Modeling Forum anytime as in general its the most level, unbiased, on topic, and active forum dedicated to digital gear that I've found on the net. If not for that sight, I doubt I would even know what the Kemper was at this point and probably would not have bought one. Sure there are a few bad apples, but all the crying about forum bias at TGP is just stupid. There are something like 7 threads on the first page of the TGP digital forum right now with Kemper in the title, all of them positive save a few posts in one thread. If all you want is all Kemper, all the time, all hugs and kisses this forum should suffice. If your interested at all in all the different digital gear on the market, head to the TGP digital forum. If you don't like specific users, add them to your ignore list and you'll never have to read a single post from them. But otherwise, as Scott would say, put on your big boy pants as folks will voice their opposing opinions and are passionate about the gear they own. That's life...

    Does anyone actually read other people's posts around here?


    Summary of my posts to those who care:


    Who cares if someone has an opposing view on a product? Certainly not me. The problem comes from when there is a discussion about a certain product, someeone says something about another product and in fly the moderators to lock down/delete the thread. Why not let the discussion continue? What good is deleting posts but to hide things that may implicate/show bias?
    Now, about the most level, unbiased, on-topic and active forum dedicated to digital gear, I'm afraid I can only agree with the latter. Also, this forum is anything but all hugs and kisses, issues are brought up and dealt with by the ownership without fear of reprisal. This is how a fair and unbiased forum works!

    Quote from Blackbird

    Funniest joke in this whole thread. :thumbup:

    Recommend me a better one, I'd be happy to join and participate.

    Quote from tfridgen

    Does anyone actually read other people's posts around here?


    Summary of my posts to those who care:


    Who cares if someone has an opposing view on a product? Certainly not me. The problem comes from when there is a discussion about a certain product, someeone says something about another product and in fly the moderators to lock down/delete the thread. Why not let the discussion continue? What good is deleting posts but to hide things that may implicate/show bias?
    Now, about the most level, unbiased, on-topic and active forum dedicated to digital gear, I'm afraid I can only agree with the latter. Also, this forum is anything but all hugs and kisses, issues are brought up and dealt with by the ownership without fear of reprisal. This is how a fair and unbiased forum works!

    I guess my point is who cares if a post gets locked and deleted? What good becomes of it? It defuses a fire which shouldn't have started in the first place and is a standard practice at a great many forums and a right of the owner of the forum to do whatever they please. Get over it already.

    The forum of a product is always going to be biased to a certain degree. That's common sense and everybody should know that. Here is where you will usually find more fanboys (or anti other companies) and where you will encounter more negative and defensive reactions when you have a request, a comment on an issue or make a positive remark about a competing product. The way the company representatives (and that includes the CEO, collaborators, forum mods, ...) deal with this will define in what direction the forum goes. So far excluding a few exceptions I think Kemper is going into the right direction but they have to be really careful with this.


    I think TGP is a neutral forum but obviously that does not mean that you are not going to find biased users over there. And by biased I don't mean users owning competing products but users taking sides showing prejudice on their comments (that's what biased means). Scott is clearly biased but he has said in numerous occasions that he does not moderate the digital gear section so he should considered as a regular user over there and entitled to an opinion just like everybody else.

    Quote from Blackbird

    Funniest joke in this whole thread. :thumbup:


    Have to Disagree Wil, as TGP has long been known as the most fractal BIASED forum of any out there, apart from FAS itself. I personally like Rig-talk better when it comes to gear discussions like this. AS I said, it was really amazing and interesting to see the different posts when I posted my A/B tests on a few sites, no other site resulted in the craziness that ensued on TGP, from that one clip I was labeled a Zealot because I posted something about kemper, pretty nuts. All of the other sites I posted on had intelligent conversations about the clips and gear for the most part, on TGP it turned into my test sucked etc. ha. BUT as I also said, TGP has gotten MUCH MUCH better and kemper topics are really starting to be equal to others and getting more fair discussion. But TGP has long been known for its bias, there are many threads started all over the net talking about it. IT really was an extension of the FAS forum. I mean the co-owner is really really involved with Cliff and Fractal, has long been one of the most vocal about the Axe, of course he will be biased and thats ok we all are to some extent, just some positions create conflict of interest. but things have changed and I am glad. Kemper is being more accepted and discussions are more level headed. Yes there has been uneeded punches from both sides, but honestly I think most of the kemper people stabs have been a result of FAS smear fest retaliation as well as giving some forumites a taste of their own medecine (not saying it is productive). I mean cliff has said and posted some crappy stuff all over the net and on TGP. his intensions are clear, his BS is thick and some people follow suit to defend what they are using cause they want it to be the best and no other can compare.

    Quote from Will_Chen

    Recommend me a better one, I'd be happy to join and participate.

    I guess my point is who cares if a post gets locked and deleted? What good becomes of it? It defuses a fire which shouldn't have started in the first place and is a standard practice at a great many forums and a right of the owner of the forum to do whatever they please. Get over it already.

    Still not reading/understanding my posts. No need for further discussion.

    Quote from audioholic

    Have to Disagree Wil, as TGP has long been known as the most fractal BIASED forum of any out there, apart from FAS itself. I personally like Rig-talk better when it comes to gear discussions like this. AS I said, it was really amazing and interesting to see the different posts when I posted my A/B tests on a few sites, no other site resulted in the craziness that ensued on TGP, from that one clip I was labeled a Zealot because I posted something about kemper, pretty nuts. All of the other sites I posted on had intelligent conversations about the clips and gear for the most part, on TGP it turned into my test sucked etc. ha. BUT as I also said, TGP has gotten MUCH MUCH better and kemper topics are really starting to be equal to others and getting more fair discussion. But TGP has long been known for its bias, there are many threads started all over the net talking about it. IT really was an extension of the FAS forum. I mean the co-owner is really really involved with Cliff and Fractal, has long been one of the most vocal about the Axe, of course he will be biased and thats ok we all are to some extent, just some positions create conflict of interest. but things have changed and I am glad. Kemper is being more accepted and discussions are more level headed. Yes there has been uneeded punches from both sides, but honestly I think most of the kemper people stabs have been a result of FAS smear fest retaliation as well as giving some forumites a taste of their own medecine (not saying it is productive). I mean cliff has said and posted some crappy stuff all over the net and on TGP. his intensions are clear, his BS is thick and some people follow suit to defend what they are using cause they want it to be the best and no other can compare.

    This^^^
    Audioholic, you have been/are the most level headed and helpful dude around there. This is in spite of the baseless attacks you have received when posting clips. Always love reading your opinion!

    Quote from audioholic

    Have to Disagree Wil, as TGP has long been known as the most fractal BIASED forum of any out there, apart from FAS itself. I personally like Rig-talk better when it comes to gear discussions like this. AS I said, it was really amazing and interesting to see the different posts when I posted my A/B tests on a few sites, no other site resulted in the craziness that ensued on TGP, from that one clip I was labeled a Zealot because I posted something about kemper, pretty nuts. All of the other sites I posted on had intelligent conversations about the clips and gear for the most part, on TGP it turned into my test sucked etc. ha. BUT as I also said, TGP has gotten MUCH MUCH better and kemper topics are really starting to be equal to others and getting more fair discussion. But TGP has long been known for its bias, there are many threads started all over the net talking about it. IT really was an extension of the FAS forum. I mean the co-owner is really really involved with Cliff and Fractal, has long been one of the most vocal about the Axe, of course he will be biased and thats ok we all are to some extent, just some positions create conflict of interest. but things have changed and I am glad. Kemper is being more accepted and discussions are more level headed. Yes there has been uneeded punches from both sides, but honestly I think most of the kemper people stabs have been a result of FAS smear fest retaliation as well as giving some forumites a taste of their own medecine (not saying it is productive). I mean cliff has said and posted some crappy stuff all over the net and on TGP. his intensions are clear, his BS is thick and some people follow suit to defend what they are using cause they want it to be the best and no other can compare.

    Rig Talk = generic forum covering all gear vs the active focused discussion of digital gear on TGP Digital forum. You posted the same Kemper clip thread at both sites: at TGP 14 replies and 360 views with no negative responses (including praise from a known AxeFX owner). At Rig Talk, 4 replies (2 of them by you) and 106 views. Honestly folks, suggest me a better forum. I'm a member at many and I've not found a better forum dedicated to digital gear. I'd love to be proven wrong...

    Quote from audioholic

    Have to Disagree Wil, as TGP has long been known as the most fractal BIASED forum of any out there, apart from FAS itself. I personally like Rig-talk better when it comes to gear discussions like this. AS I said, it was really amazing and interesting to see the different posts when I posted my A/B tests on a few sites, no other site resulted in the craziness that ensued on TGP, from that one clip I was labeled a Zealot because I posted something about kemper, pretty nuts. All of the other sites I posted on had intelligent conversations about the clips and gear for the most part, on TGP it turned into my test sucked etc. ha. BUT as I also said, TGP has gotten MUCH MUCH better and kemper topics are really starting to be equal to others and getting more fair discussion. But TGP has long been known for its bias, there are many threads started all over the net talking about it. IT really was an extension of the FAS forum. I mean the co-owner is really really involved with Cliff and Fractal, has long been one of the most vocal about the Axe, of course he will be biased and thats ok we all are to some extent, just some positions create conflict of interest. but things have changed and I am glad. Kemper is being more accepted and discussions are more level headed. Yes there has been uneeded punches from both sides, but honestly I think most of the kemper people stabs have been a result of FAS smear fest retaliation as well as giving some forumites a taste of their own medecine (not saying it is productive). I mean cliff has said and posted some crappy stuff all over the net and on TGP. his intensions are clear, his BS is thick and some people follow suit to defend what they are using cause they want it to be the best and no other can compare.


    And would not it be simply because there is more KPA users now and that makes it more balanced? Lately there is actually more threads about the KPA than the Axe FX II so maybe that's what changed your perception. Don't forget it is the regular users that drive the content on the forums and those are the ones that may be biased or not.

    Quote from MadH

    And would not it be simply because there is more KPA users now and that makes it more balanced? Lately there is actually more threads about the KPA than the Axe FX II so maybe that's what changed your perception. Don't forget it is the regular users that drive the content on the forums and those are the ones that may be biased or not.

    Imagine how many more there would be if a tonne of them weren't nuked :P

    Quote from tfridgen

    Imagine how many more there would be if a tonne of them weren't nuked :P


    I have seen a few threads over there get closed recently and all of them were due to people fighting. I believe there is a few users opening or participating in threads just to create fights. Some other users are simply morons that cannot contain themselves if somebody else says something negative or express a different preference about what they own. Personally I would do the same thing in those cases.

    Quote from MadH

    Scott is clearly biased but he has said in numerous occasions that he does not moderate the digital gear section so he should considered as a regular user over there and entitled to an opinion just like everybody else.

    Does that mean that in the Digital & Modelling forum all "regular users" and their opinions are subject to the same TGP rules and infractions?


    You can't have it both ways, you're either a "regular user" and subject to TGP rules or you aren't?
    If you aren't subject to TGP rules then you can't participate in the discussion/thread.


    Do you think a GP moderator would give Scott infraction points for "Excessive Arguing"?
    No, they wouldn't, that's why they're forced to nuke the thread.
    The moderator gave out infraction points to some of the other users in that DSP thread for "Excessive arguing".


    Did any regular users excessively argue any more than Scott did?
    No, there was excessive arguing on all and both sides...infraction points were deserved on all sides.


    End result, it's impossible to have a fair discussion because the 'users' are subject to different TGP rules...the moderators are in a Catch 22 situation.


    What happens now?...seen it happen a hundred times over the last few years.
    It will be all nice and quite for a week or two on TGP Digital &
    Modelling forum...everyone will be blowing kisses at eachother.
    You'll read stuff like...
    "They're both great units, both have great tones"
    "It's a great time to be a guitarist"
    "If I had the money I'd own both"
    "Wow, great tone in that Kemper clip, even though I own an Axe-FX"
    "Wow, great tone in that Axe-FX clip, even though I own a Kemper"
    "As long as you're having fun that's all that matters"
    "It's just gear, folks"


    Certain 'folk' will breathe deeply and control themselves.
    But, keep watching, it won't take long before it explodes again, and
    it's predictable who will be right in the middle of the explosion.


    No clue. You should ask them if you want to know about that.


    Fractal CEO broke the rules on the mentioned thread by talking about competing products. Even if what he said is true that is an infraction over there. Scott should not have justified it unless he does not know the rules of his own forum. I guess Fractal CEO finally received an warning/penalty because of it and probably that's the reason why the thread was removed. If this did not happen then I would question TGP neutrality.

    Edited once, last by MadH ().