KPA problems direct through a PA - help needed

    So I've been using my rack mount - nonpowered KPA for a couple of months. So far, I've spent a significant amount of time working through profiles and getting FCB1010 set up just the way I want it. I've only used it at home through some really nice flat response, mix worthy headphones. Most of my profiles are from TAF and I have done almost no EQing to them. What I've added is WAH and boost effects to engage as needed in patches. So no dramatic changes to profiles than what any of you would hear if purchasing TAF ones.


    Well, I took my KPA to band practice for the first time and it sounded very "weak" and "thin" and trebly through the PA. This is our practice PA we've been using for 8 years and the keyboard, vocals, mandolin, and Hammond translate just fine between it and our big PA. So I was disappointed that the KPA sounded like it did. I couldn't really EQ the sound to taste during practice without wasting all of our practice time. But I was really surprised to hear such a dramatic difference from the headphones. The other issue was that none of my various profiles really sounded different (other than clean or dirty) - they lacked the definition and character that set each apart from one another. For example, there was no audible difference between the TAF bassman clean and trainwreck clean for instance. Also, the delay and reverb effects appeared almost nonexitant through the PA as compared to what I had in my headphones.


    So I went home and plugged everything in through my mixing desk in my home recording studio. nice yahama 10 inch studio monitors, nice focusrite pre. same issue. Hmmm.


    I'm wondering if there is some internal setting that might be off? some button that maybe I need to engage to make it sound right? It was such a dramatic departure from the really great tones I have been hearing at home through headphones.


    for your reference, I used the TS line out from the mains left - I have the KPA set to Main mono. I ensured that the tone stack and cab on the front panel was engaged.


    Thanks for any input and help. I completely understand that each PA in eachroom will require "Some" tweaking. But this was a VERY dramatic change. hopefully, there's some setting I'm not yet aware of that I need to address..

    Hard to judge from far away, but as I see it the issue might be in the difference among PA, HPs and monitors. You can't expect they sound the same.


    Also, ambience fx may vary a lot when heard through HPs Vs. Cabs/PAs.


    For sure, when you raise the volume you start perceiving more and more trebles and lows as far as you turn the knob, and this doesn't depend in general from the listening medium.
    You should definitely spend some quality time tweaking through the PA and saving the EQ configuration as an output setting.


    Rule of thumb: always tweak at performance's volume.


    HTH

    if the issue boils down to EQing for each PA, HP, or monitor I use, it sounds like the best option is to tweak just the output EQ. Is there a way to save multiple different output EQs so that I can call up whichever I want depending on how I'm listening to the KPA?

    Quote from midwest

    if the issue boils down to EQing for each PA, HP, or monitor I use, it sounds like the best option is to tweak just the output EQ. Is there a way to save multiple different output EQs so that I can call up whichever I want depending on how I'm listening to the KPA?


    Yes, that's possible. The real culprit, IMO, like Gianfranco already has hinted at, is the different loudness of tweaking and performance volume. Google Fletcher- Munson.

    But he also wrote he had the same issue through monitors, which were presumably working at a lower volume than PA, so probably the three media (HPs+head, monitors+studio, PA+room) sound really different.


    PS: the issue of profiles sounding the same could also be related (apart from room resonances) to cabs having been accidentally switched off... It could be worth checking ;)

    how do I check if cabs is accidentally switched off? That would seem to be the clearest answer of no definition between different rigs.

    Would someone mind giving me the quick guide to saving multiple global output EQs to use? I have no idea how to do that.


    As for Fletcher-Munson, no matter how much I turn the volume down or loud I turn it up on the PA and studio monitors, there was no beef, no low end, no definition. only thin sounding mids and brittle high end. As with all my studio recordings, when you pump the volume, the recording (appears to) sounds bigger, better and fuller. But not so when using the main outs of the KPA - no matter how loud I push it, there is no fullness. It doesn't matter whether I'm running it to a PA or my studio monitors - the XLR outputs seems to come up short.


    I love the headphone sound, regardless of volume level. It sounds like the tone everyone on here talks about and why I purchased the KPA. I want that live as well. hopefully it's the cabs issue mentioned above as that seems like the easiest fix. Thanks again for everyone's input and help.

    Get your sound the way you want it without headphones, they lie! Also make sure you don't have head phone Space on either, it kind of adds it's own effects to reduce listener fatigue to the mix. To save an EQ preset is a piece of cake, when you are in the EQ edit screen of either the monitor or main outputs just hit the Store button then save it how you like. To recall them just turn the browse knob when you are in those EQ edit screens and the list pops up.


    I had to add a lot of bottom end to all my patches for live use, TAF or anyone else, I loved them in my headphones but at volume it all change. A simple quick fix that I did to get rolling at practice was to add an EQ stomp that's called "1x12 to 4x12" to all my patches, helped a lot. Also make sure the PA channel you are on is set to flat as well.


    As for the different amps sounding similar I'm not sure, could possibly be that they all sound thin and you hate them all equally? Good luck and keep us posted on the progress, we may be able to help further.

    Thanks much for the info on saving EQ settings! If my issue is simply one of EQing, that'll be a MASSIVE help for me.


    While I'm a bit nervous, I think I am going to bite the bullet and take the KPA to my gig this weekend when I'll have a good extra hour to fiddle with the EQ using our big PA. I will definitely report back. Thanks again to everyone for the input - much appreciated.


    And any other ideas from people before Saturday to possibly solve my sound problem are more than welcome!

    So I figured that my issue was just needing to EQ. I decided to go get a FRFR 12 inch powered speaker and hook it up to the main out on the KPA. I figured that would get me in the ball park for live PA use as opposed to just relying on my headphones and studio monitors at home. And I could tweak at home as much as I want that way without taking up valuable band practice time. I went to Guitar Center and grabbed an EV ZLX-12P as the reviews made it seem like the closest low budget option that would resemble the sound of the JBLs we use with our big PA.
    I got home, turned on the KPA, played through my headphones and it sounded fantastic. I plugged in the EV zlx12p, this time using the XLR main left out on the back of the KPA and it sounded really great. (at practice where it sounded weak I had used the TS output). I still made some very minor tweaks to lower the highs and high mids to the main output EQ while playing through the EV (and saved it as a "live output" setting - thanks everyone for helping me figure out how to do that) But wow, what a massive difference from what I was hearing before. all it needed was some minor tweaks and the sound was everything I expected it to be. Amazing that the room you are in and the theoretically flat response speakers you are using can create THAT much audible difference. Really glad nothing is wrong with my KPA. and now I know that I can create and output EQ present for each of the main venues we play so that every subsequent setup with go much quicker and easier.
    Not sure if anyone else is using these EVs, but they sound really great. It has built in DSP with a variety of settings and EQ options. I used it at its flattest EQ settings. Every rig I used from clean to cranked sounded great. I never had to turn up the EV past half way as that was a plenty loud monitor for me for any gig I'll ever have. And for $350 after tax, I just can't imagine that a powered QSC or high end JBL for 3 times the price would sound that much better. I'm sure the higher end stuff has better components, is likely more reliable long term, and has some level of better clarity at varying volumes - but the sound quality from the EV is really really great for every rig at this price point. I'll see though, as we use really nice JBLs for our big PA - so I'll be able to tell after my gig on Saturday how much better the sound is out front than through the EV on stage. If anyone is interested, I'm happy to report back. Solving my sound problem (or realizing I didn't really have one) gives me a lot of hope that I can just run my KPA through the PA and use our regular monitors and be perfectly happy for most gigs. Then just bring out the EV when it's a big venue and I want a backline or when the venue is so small that I might not even go through the pa but just use the EV as my only sound source. So I'm happy again! And glad that I got it figured out.
    Thanks to everyone for the advice and tips.

    Your headphones sound like the culprit to me....I would say they already have a nice big Smiley Curve so, eventho they sound magnificent, they are nowhere near what's actually coming out of the Kemper. Plus a nice natural compression.
    You can only trust the sound when it hits air......ie Speakers