Profiles with natural room reverberations (cab/mic type deal)

    I don't know if it is possible with the computation power in the kemper - and many "private profilers" would probably not get the greatest results, so maybe it is something that should be possible to turn off during profiling and/or when loaded. But it would be great if the unit captured the natural room reverberations as long as the profile was done in a good-sounding room! This could be especially relevant when micing a bit further away. This would of course necessitate picking up time-based effects in the return signal.


    Maybe it has been suggested and turned down before?

    What you're describing and requesting has to do with an actual audio recording of a source, like a sampling. The Profiler doesn't capture samples, it only (roughly) listens to how the amp reacts in terms of volume, gain and distortion. There would be no "registry" where to store the information needed to render the room reverberation.
    What you describe would be rendered through a convolution reverb.


    :)

    Purely academic, right?


    A semi-algorithmic impulse-response-driven reverb can be a convenient and quite awesome idea -
    just add a pulse at the end of the profiling process, analyze the result and apply to an algorithm.
    Problem is, the pulse will be distorted by any amp so it's impossible to get consistent test signals.
    Maybe it would be possible to also account for the actual amp's contribution to the test signal? If anyone could do that, it's Kemper.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Quote from Michael_dk

    I havent said anything about how it should be implemented - convolution or anyhting else! I'd leave that for the geniuses at kemper to figure out. Why couldn't it be semi-algorhithmic where the parameters are picked up by the kpa?


    anyway - is what you write speculation, or are you repeating from official sources?


    Michael, what I am saying is that the process of profiling per se is unable to take into consideration the room (apart from the contribution the room gives to the overall harmonic and phase spectrum the mic perceives) because of the kind of test signals involved and the kind of analysis they are subjected to; and that what you're suggesting should be implemented as a further function (for example room convolution).
    Such functions are already available as separate devices\facilities, so I can hardly see Kemper adding functions, cost and complexity to the Profiler, that they want to keep as simple and straightforward as possible.


    Also, your dualistic observation about me "speculating" or "repeating from official sources" sound a bit rigid, doesn't it? :)
    After all this time, and discussions, and writing... it would be almost impossible for me to exactly tell "what I know" from "what I think" about the Profiler.
    Furthermore, this is a place of discussion, where all our opinions and ideas are shared in good spirit.


    Peace :)

    Quote from viabcroce

    Also, your dualistic observation about me "speculating" or "repeating from official sources" sound a bit rigid, doesn't it?
    After all this time, and discussions, and writing... it would be almost impossible for me to exactly tell "what I know" from "what I think" about the Profiler.
    Furthermore, this is a place of discussion, where all our opinions and ideas are shared in good spirit.


    Peace


    Quote from viabcroce

    Michael, what I am saying is that the process of profiling per se is unable to take into consideration the room (apart from the contribution the room gives to the overall harmonic and phase spectrum the mic perceives) because of the kind of test signals involved and the kind of analysis they are subjected to; and that what you're suggesting should be implemented as a further function (for example room convolution).
    Such functions are already available as separate devices\facilities, so I can hardly see Kemper adding functions, cost and complexity to the Profiler, that they want to keep as simple and straightforward as possible.


    Also, your dualistic observation about me "speculating" or "repeating from official sources" sound a bit rigid, doesn't it? :)
    After all this time, and discussions, and writing... it would be almost impossible for me to exactly tell "what I know" from "what I think" about the Profiler.
    Furthermore, this is a place of discussion, where all our opinions and ideas are shared in good spirit.


    Peace :)


    Reading what I wrote, I can see that it maybe came out different than what I intended (as in the tone of my post) - sorry for that :) And thanks for the clarification about what you meant.


    Yes, it would be a new feature (hence putting it in feature request section ;-)).


    But I do not agree that we already have the technology necessarily. When playing through the Kemper, we get the mic colour (from the choice of mic AS WELL as the position on the cab) - and running that whole deal through a pre-existing IR would double up on that colouration.


    Unless you can point me to someIRs of starter pistols fired at distances from 2 inches to 4 feet from the various mic types? (now I'm just being a smart-ass - but it's all meant in good humour :-))

    All is well :)


    Mhhh... you're mixing two different issues here: how the profiling technique affects the profile's overall EQ, and how to capture the room's ambience.
    Even if Kemper implemented the latter as I got you're suggesting, we'd have to rely on a mic placed somewhere, or I am missing something?

    OTOH, a room's CR makes you hear any sound as if it was reverberating in that room, regardless its sonic spectrum, so I see no issue in this. It's like saying that once you EQ your guitar in a recording then you can't apply reverb any longer because there would be a double colouration (?)


    On a side note, as Jay Mitchell has explained in several occasions, it's possible to capture a cab using a linear mic and specific attentions in order to not get a "closed mic'ed" profile: this will produce a virtual cab that - when played in the same room through a very linear audio subsystem - sounds exactly like the original cab.


    :)

    When you run a recording of the signal through an IR, it's like running the recording through the cab+mic TWICE - so the frequency response of the MIC is added twice to the room reverberation part of the signal.


    Say you have a profile with a cab miced with a 57 a foot away, and you have an IR of a cab with a 57 a foot away. Blend in the IR to get the room reflections, and those reflections would essentially exhibit DOUBLE the mid peak of the SM57, for instance. In a "conventional" recording situation you'd get the direct sound of the amp, which is essentially what the kemper gives you. Then you'd have the reverberation part of the signal, which is the room reverberations captured by the SM57 also. But in a conventional situation, that part of the signal has not been passed through the SM57 once already :)

    You lost me. What has a cab's IR to do with a room's IR?
    Also, you can use measurement mics in both cases, not adding any colouration at all (or a negligible amount of it).


    What am I missing?


    :)