Looper enhancements

    Quote from Ingolf


    No, only rig volume can.


    Well, using a completely clean sound, diming the rig volume and cab volume so that the output led shows a constant, solid red....I still can not for the life of it clip an output when the master is lowered enough. It's my impression that the output led represents output levels for outputs as they would be when set to 0 dB (not attenuated).

    I mean, just turn the rig volume up to the point the output led shows red, and then the master volume all the way down. Does the output led still show red? There is your answer ;)

    Quote from Laimon

    I mean, just turn the rig volume up to the point the output led shows red, and then the master volume all the way down. Does the output led still show red? There is your answer ;)


    That's no answer :) The outputs don't have separate leds, and they may have different attenuation applied, so the led may just represent the no-output-attenuation scenario.


    Try going into solid red output led and reduce the master volume so that you're not maxing the output or the next input stage. There's no clipping.

    In this case, you could hear no clipping before lowering the Master volume as well.
    The Master volume will manage the next device's input. Of course you can clip the power amp too with a strong enough signal. So it all depends on what was clipping. We already know that the red on the output LED doesn't automatically implies clipping, because headroom is great.

    Quote from viabcroce

    In this case, you could hear no clipping before lowering the Master volume as well.
    The Master volume will manage the next device's input. Of course you can clip the power amp too with a strong enough signal. So it all depends on what was clipping. We already know that the red on the output LED doesn't automatically implies clipping, because headroom is great.


    The output should definitely clip when making a solid red led just by lightly touching the strings 8) I hammer the strings, and still get a fully dynamic clean signal when lowering the Master.


    You're saying that the Master Volume servo controls (relative) analog attenuation of all outputs. I strongly doubt that's the case. Also, the s/pdif output level will be affected the same way whether you use rig volume or master volume.

    No, I am not saying that, I am saying that the Volume is pre-converter and the Master volume is after-converter.
    When you hear clipping with the Volume all way up, you are clipping the power amp as well.


    Try this: switch the power amp off. Start with a clean rig that doesn't clip. Now crank the Master volume up. IIGYR, you should see the red on the Output LED. This doesn't happen on my unit.


    Counter-experiment: switch the power amp off. Start with a clean rig that doesn't clip and set Master volume to a normal value (-15 dB?).
    Raise Volume, Cabinet's volume and also an EQ's volume in the Effect section until you get a solid red on the LED. Now turn Master volume all its way down. IIGYR, you should see the red weakening off on the Output LED. This doesn't happen on my unit either.


    Please let me know if I am missing something, which might definitely be the case! LOL

    Quote from viabcroce

    I am saying that the Volume is pre-converter and the Master volume is after-converter.


    Then the Master Volume would have to servo control analog attenuation for all the outputs, which I highly doubt. (No, Master Volume does not affect the output leds.)


    Here's a video. A clean rig with Rig Volume dimed at +12 dB, Cab +6 dB. As you can see, the output led will go solid red just by lightly strumming. Hammering the strings is still completely clean. No compression added. Master for the output used is attenuated -20 dB.


    External Content youtu.be
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    Not sure what the video is showing?
    The point is that we have ATM no scientific way to determine if and how much a solid red in the Output LED is audible in terms of clipping. OTOH, when I start from a solid red and raise the Master volume I hear no further distortion, which should instead be the case if I'm getting you right...
    I tried the same through HPs (basically the Master volume is a way to collectively tweak Main Volume, Monitor Volume and HPs volume, unless you unlink them), and again can hear no difference in distortion when I tweak it.


    Do not take me wrong, it's not that I don't want to change my mind, but rather that I have not yet found a reason to :)

    Quote from viabcroce

    Not sure what the video is showing?
    The point is that we have ATM no scientific way to determine if and how much a solid red in the Output LED is audible in terms of clipping. OTOH, when I start from a solid red and raise the Master volume I hear no further distortion, which should instead be the case if I'm getting you right...
    I tried the same through HPs (basically the Master volume is a way to collectively tweak Main Volume, Monitor Volume and HPs volume, unless you unlink them), and again can hear no difference in distortion when I tweak it.


    Do not take me wrong, it's not that I don't want to change my mind, but rather that I have not yet found a reason to :)


    It's just a comment on the claim that Master Volume would not avoid clipping :) To me it seems that the Master attenuates in the digital domain, IOW before the converter, and will avoid clipping.


    Quote

    OTOH, when I start from a solid red and raise the Master volume I hear no further distortion, which should instead be the case if I'm getting you right...


    No, not necessarily. What I'm saying is that the leds represents output to converters only when attenuation is 0 dB (master is not lowered). So with no Master attenuation and a bit into the red led, there should be clipping.


    I could lower the Volume on the rig in the video more than 12 dB and still go into red. More than 12 dB beyond onset of red led and no audible clipping is at least some seriously aggressive metering (if the master volume doesn't affect the signal to the converters, that is) :thumbup:


    But I guess Christoph is the one to know!

    Yep, hope he chimes in and clarifies :)


    PS: What you write makes sense, but I raised MV to 0 dB and could not hear any further distortion. It should not behave that way if your representation is correct. Or maybe it's just the FM effect cheating me LOL

    +1 for looper volume control. This should be a no-brainer. I'd like to use the looper to record a rhythm part and then solo over it. But if the rhythm and solo are the same volume, there's no separation to the two parts.

    I don't use the looper live, I use it at home as a compositional tool.
    Rolling the volume down is going - of course - to affect the overall gain of the tone, which makes no sense if I am trying to stack 4 metal tracks and it ends up sounding like a country song :P
    I mean, sure there are convoluted solutions, like bringing down the amp's volume before recording so that once you stack all tracks up you get a normal volume with no clipping and no neighbours pounding at your door, but really, doesn't it seem more sensible - given the generality of the requirement and the ease of implementation - that the Kemper team provides this? I bet this takes a few hours work included testing :D

    Since I am not able to supply such a solution, I was trying to at least give you a suggestion in order to more fully enjoy your mohe playing :D


    And no, lowering the rig's volume doesn't affect its tone.
    You can get the same result by using an expression pedal placed post-amp and used as a volume, or with a MIDI command, provided you can supply one.


    But I agree with you on the request, and I remember it has already been made :)
    Let's see if Mothership listens!
    :)

    Quote from OhG

    +1 for looper volume control. This should be a no-brainer. I'd like to use the looper to record a rhythm part and then solo over it. But if the rhythm and solo are the same volume, there's no separation to the two parts.


    +1 for loop volume.
    Setting volumes in other ways also works, but is not as convenient.