Multiple blended re-amped profiles to recreate vintage sound?

    Let me preface this question by saying I have not profiled any amps, I just don't own any anymore which apart from the lack of a decent room is why I can't experiment with this myself.


    I know the vast majority of modern era guitar sound is tracked in a close mic setup and that as far as I am aware is the method by which all profiles are created. If therefore I am aiming for an old school 50's style roomy sound as heard on many Sun records productions how would I best imitate that with the Kemper and IR loaded Aux sends in my DAW. I'll not direct the topic to the specific choice of amp or mic(s) used as this is more a theoretical question about the wider possibility of re-amping with a combination of different profiles.


    Imagine if you will a studio set up with a close(ish) mic, a mic at the back of the live room and then another set on the side wall that picks up sound which is at minimum a first reflection. Currently If I set up this virtual room in my DAW I am only ever sending the specific snap shot of that close mic's profile to the different Aux sends rather than the sound of the whole cabinet as it reaches the rear mic or the whole cabinet sounded as reflected of the side wall.


    I know the Kemper profile can't capture the time based aspect of the room but would a far mic'd profile contain all the ingredients of the entire cabinet tonally which could then be routed to the impulse responses of the room I was trying to create? That far micd profile wouldn't be any good of itself but then blended with a typical close mic profile of the same cabinet and amp setting might? I would imagine that any attempt to EQ a close mic'd profile to mimic what frequency content might be arriving at the far mic(s) is wishful thinking at best.


    I don't know whether this just nonsense and am misunderstanding what is possible from a profiling perspective. Having never done it I don't know whether there would be enough mic gain from a decent pre-amp - although I suspect there might - or whether the Kemper would even understand a reflected sound signal in the profiling process?


    Be interested to hear any views on this.

    You are on the right track, whether that track is worth the effort or not (not dismissing it - only you can be the judge of this :-))
    At least insofar as trying to simulate far mics from a close mic track is not feasible (with regards to authenticity - you might get good results, they just won't sound like a far mic of the original amp).


    But I don't know how accurately the profiler pics up the tonality of the REFLECTIONS. It will pick up the tonality of the DIRECT sound hitting the far mic. But I guess the tonality of the reflections would be achieved via the IRs.

    Yes pretty much what I thought Michael I suppose the problem with the far micd profile is even if the kemper understood a reflected signal to create the profile in the first place you would still be feeding the tonality of the amp and that room into another IR based room which would then impart its tonal fingerprint upon it as well as the time based content.


    Still I'd like to know how this might work out as this vintage style studio sound is something which is rarely heard now and for me is just magical

    Quote from Duncan

    Yes pretty much what I thought Michael I suppose the problem with the far micd profile is even if the kemper understood a reflected signal to create the profile in the first place you would still be feeding the tonality of the amp and that room into another IR based room which would then impart its tonal fingerprint upon it as well as the time based content.


    Still I'd like to know how this might work out as this vintage style studio sound is something which is rarely heard now and for me is just magical


    Hmm... Maybe I wouldn't use IRs, but algorhithmic reverb, such as valhallaroom. But whatever works. I think that given the right IRs (not the usual guitar amp IRs, but "room IRs"), you'd get good results as well here.

    I've not used valhallroom although have heard good reviews. I tend towards IR' for rooms as I own the Altiverb library which of course has some excellent IR's and the benefit of being able to position the sound source within the GUI without having to be too trouble with panning and ER times.


    I wonder if anyone could confirm whether they have attempted a profile at distance and if so how did it sound when routed to a suitably loaded Aux send.


    It's always puzzled me with the kemper and the FRFR at to how it translates when the frequency content is quite different to what audiences would be used to hearing from a standard cabinet. Not that 'Album tone' on the road is a bad thing of course just different. Whilst not exactly my original question the two points clearly have some cross over

    Quote from Duncan

    It's always puzzled me with the kemper and the FRFR at to how it translates when the frequency content is quite different to what audiences would be used to hearing from a standard cabinet.


    ...Apart from shows big enough where the cabs would be mic'd up anyway. In this sense, the difference is mainly that the small venues would get the same "TYPE" of sound (i.e. mic'ed cab) as the larger venues.


    well, not necessarily - since the kemper would allow using profiles that are mic'ed further away than what is typically used on stage.

    @Duncan


    The first rig I ever posted on the Rig Exchange was my Marshall Jubilee, using a condenser microphone, placed where my ears would be using the amp live - several feet away from the cabinet, and close to six feet off the ground. The profile faithfully reproduced the off-axis tone of the cabinet. The rig is still on the exchange. I also posted it with some cabinet substitutions, for comparison.