Need advice on setting up patches etc

    Hey people!


    I bought a Kemper last year, unfortunately I haven't spent as much time with it as I have hoped to do.


    Anyway, I'm somewhat familiar with most of the parameters, menus etc, though between all the patches, settings, parameters, rig types, I could use a little advice on a basic setup of things.
    I ask this because I find that I have to bump the treble on almost every rig I load on the Kemper, and find that I have little other choice than to run it at +2 or so, else it sounds either dull or too trebly.


    Maybe I'm missing something, or a little treble boost is what any patch needs, I don't know ;) Some feedback would be appreciated!


    Thanks!

    What is your set up?


    If you are finding that a consistent EQ adjustment is necessary across all rigs, it might just be the character of your speaker cab, power amp or something else in the chain.


    You can set a global EQ for whatever output you are using under the output section.


    I am going through a Marshall 4x12 live and it definitely needs a little bit of tweaking depending on where I am onstage and what the room sounds like. Some stuff sounds fine at home but at full stage volume it can reveal some weird things about your speakers and power amp.


    Great thing about this adjustment if you are going monitor out into a solid state power amp and guitar cab is that you can feed the main out with speaker sim separately to the FOH and any adjustments you make to your onstage sound will be independent of the FOH mix. That goes for volume changes too if you have the monitor and main volume knobs un-linked.


    So, if you are typical, neanderthal meathead that has a few beers and turns up every set (not ME, I've never done such a thing!) your sound guy won't be out in the alley with a baseball bat ready to break your knees after the show.

    Eep, I forgot to reply!


    Paul, I have tried different setups:
    - running the Kemper (with integrated power amp) into a guitar cab with the appropriate settings for that
    - through studio monitors, which is my current setup


    Both seemed to have the quality that it needs a bunch of treble in order to sound like decent. As for your comment Viabcroce, I have 3 pretty different guitars, so I run between the guitars to make sure the characteristics I get is a general thing and not from the particular guitar I use ;)


    I have also used headphones in the past, and I remember that as a different sound compared to the other two I mentioned. I will be testing this soon, maybe that will give me a lead on what I'm experiencing :)

    I spent some time doing A/B comparison between using headphones and my studio monitors.


    It hit me that I have always found the sound when using headphones to be very good. It has a great feel, a good response, dynamic and expressive - overall sounds fantastic and its so much fun to play.


    But when I play and output to external sources, it's as if the character of the whole thing just disappears. It still sounds good, but no way the same feel, the same response and dynamic that I love, and only get when putting on my headphones.
    I tried putting on some global EQ for the main output, and it does liven up the sound. But it doesn't bring out the character (dare I say the soul :P ) of the rig I've loaded up.


    It even sounds like the gain levels are different. Like this Fender Twin-ish I use, seems very clean and somewhat stale in the monitors. But sounds livelier, more driven and its a pretty hot sound in headphones, as if the gain setting was given a bump.


    This is the kind of difference I'm talking, and it's driving me crazy :D

    Hang I'm there, I went through a similar thing.


    Check each rig as you are playing it through your live set up and make sure the Cab is definitely OFF.


    I made this mistake and it sounds like maybe you are doing the same, running the cab portion of the rig intro your power amp.

    Yeah that's right viabcroce, also through studio monitors.


    I read something about a 'true cab' setting, which I'm not familiar with. I don't know if that one is in play with the main outs. Maybe I'll check that out :)

    Quote from Deadlock

    Yeah that's right viabcroce, also through studio monitors.


    I read something about a 'true cab' setting, which I'm not familiar with. I don't know if that one is in play with the main outs. Maybe I'll check that out :)

    are you talking about pure cab?
    You can't have it switched on just for one output. If you have it on the main output, you also have it on your headphones.

    I was on my way to edit it to pure cabinet, so yes, that was absolutely what I meant ;)


    Alright, I will save time testing for that then, haha!
    Is there anything else that affects the individual output sources, like global EQ, cab on/off, etc?

    Pure Cab will not make your rigs brighter tho.


    If you have only used one cable for connecting to power amp \ monitors, you might want to check whether the cable has the culprit. What you describe is actually weird... as if your monitors' tweeter was broken (but this would not explain you hearing the same from your guitar cab. Unless your tweeter does is broken, and you're keeping the cab's profile on when using your guitar cab! The combination of the two would explain the sonic outcome).


    Anyway, if the former checks fail, try resetting the Profiler (both a System and a Rig reset): this has led to unpredictably good results in the past.


    HTH

    I updated the firmware again to the newest, and also made a system reset of the Kemper again (did this before without any luck).


    It seems that this time it changed something, and changed the character of pretty much everything. The patches I had set up with the aforementioned treble boosts, now sounds very trebly and needs to be dialed down to around 0 (neutral) or +0.5 to sound as trebly as before (+2). This is good, and will need to tinker more to see how it all works out :)

    Alright I'm back to post more gibberish :P Sorry for the delay.


    I'm continuously frustrated that I cannot get the same feel of the rig through speakers compared to what I get from my headphones. I believe the rigs are functioning correctly, but somewhere along the signal path, it takes a hit. Does the headphone out get any special treatment to the signal, if the 'Space' parameter is disabled?


    After all my tinkering, I'm somewhat convinced that my interface, a Scarlett 2i2, is doing a great deal of tone sucking. This conclusion is based on:


    - The headphone out of the Kemper sounds amazing.
    - Listening to headphone out on my interface has that 'box-y' sound. Highs not so lively, bass is boomy, overall not interesting.
    - If the same signal is being fed to my monitors, I can imagine why they seem lackluster as well.
    - The monitors seem generally 'boomy' sounding when playing content from my PC, which may be explained by the quality of the interface.


    I'm reluctant doing more testing by running Kemper directly to monitors, since they are connected by XLR to TRS cables. Will the Kemper tolerate balanced TRS cables in the main 1/4" outputs, when the other end is XLR?


    Overall I think it all points to the interface. Does it sound plausible to expect this from a unit like the 2i2? At the price I wouldn't expect it to be 'very good', but most people praise it for being good and not having much quality loss. Which contradicts my statements here. Any ideas? :)

    Feel free to connect the monitors to the Profiler.


    I believe that the Focusrite is ok (unless it's broken), and would look at the monitors. Also, their placement might play a big role here. Are they close to walls\corners? Are they laying over resonant surfaces such as a wooden desktop? Is the room very small, quite cubic or rather empty (free walls, ceiling, floor)?
    Each of these elements can strongly affect what you hear.


    After trying the direct connection (to rule out the sound card) I'd advise you to try your monitors in another room and by placing them onto not-resonant surfaces (a straw chair, a pillow, a folded blanket) caring that they are at the same height they were in the original room.


    These simple tests can tell you a lot.
    If you feel intrigued, you might find this link useful and entertaining as well.


    HTH :)

    Good call on the acoustic properties regarding the monitors, they definitely aren't in an optimal environment.


    But the difference between the headphones tests are quite large. I feel there is a huge loss in dynamics through my 2i2. It definitely doesn't amplify as much either so the headphones monitor setting is full tilt while input is matched to not clip. And even then it doesn't play as loud as the kemper needs to run the headphones, in order to get the fullest sound.


    A part of my findings was that running too low a signal from kemper to my headphones would result it that sound too. But running output at around -15dB seems to play loud enough to get the juicy details. Much lower and it sounds flubby.


    How sensitive is the device to signal levels I wonder? Since it makes the largest difference to me, which I find funny since I thought that was less the case with a digital unit :)

    I did not get whether you tried to connect HPs and monitors straight to the Profiler?


    As for driving the audiocard, you can go as high as you want provided you don't clip the card's input. There should be an input meter\LED to check overdriving.


    Anyway, there might be huge differences between HPs and between cabs. Also, the way HPs sound might depend on the socket/device they are connected to; impedance, output level and sensitivity being the most meaningful parameters involved.
    :)

    I've experienced a similar thing with the headphones too. Playing my KPA through headphones sounds truly epic. I tried both the main out, and monitor out to my Zoom R24 recorder/mixer, and all the epic-ness disappears, and everything sounds dull. So I went from the headphone out to the R24 thinking that I was on to a good thing, and it still sounded awful. I checked that there was no eq variables coming into play on the recorder, and everything was "neutral", but I just cannot capture the KPA in all of it's glory. It's a very odd thing indeed.


    Edit:


    Oh, and I used the same headphones to monitor the R24 too.

    @viabcroce
    During this round of testing, I haven't run Kemper directly to monitors yet. Though I used my headphones through both Kempers HP output, and my 2i2's HP out. To me there is a big difference in the tonal qualities right there.


    I'm careful not to clip my interface. Though it gets a little difficult to compare the two, since I need to drive my headphones at a certain level to bring out all the goodness. And I feel I can't drive the HP output of my 2i2 enough to reach the same level. So I have to match my Kemper down to the level the 2i2 tolerates without clipping, since the 2i2 (mine at least) doesn't play very loudly with HP monitor volume at max while input the is matched to just under the point of clipping.


    Eh, I'll keep on trying stuff. Ultimately, I haven't spent a lot of time with the Kemper, which may be the biggest problem. I can't say for sure that my findings are 100% true, as there are different variables at play.
    Anyway, thanks for giving feedback :)


    @Bilbosmeggins
    It's funny to find someone with the same experience - have you had luck getting your sound on anything but the headphones?