I'm about to buy an audio interface and I want to make the right decision in regards to I/O so I have to option to reamp with the KPA. First things first, has anyone found a preference between using the main outs (XLR or 1/4") vs. the SPDIF out? I've had other modelers with SPDIF and with those, the analog outs just plain sounded better (higher quality A/D maybe?).
Anyway, I figure I would have the Guitar -> KPA -> direct output to 1/4" analog in on interface (to capture the dry track).
Then I would ALSO have the KPA -> SPDIF out -> SPDIF in on interface (to monitor and possible record the KPA, stereo track in most cases)
When it is time to reamp, mute the affected stereo tracks.
Recable and take LINE OUT from the audio interface -> instrument input on the KPA.
As usual record this reamped KPA using the SPDIF out -> SPDIF in on the audio interface.
Is that right?
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Everything correct, I have XLR to board (USB 2), not the 1/4, only difference.
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Everything correct, I have XLR to board (USB 2), not the 1/4, only difference.
Sorry, can you elaborate on this? When you say "XLR to board" do you mean you are using the MAIN OUTS (XLR) that go into your board (and then audio interface) vs. using SPDIF out on the KPA to SPDIF in on your audio interface?
That is the reason I asked if people are seeing any issues using SPDIF (in quality of tone - I have heard that SPDIF in general on the device is now working both in and out). One of the audio interfaces I am considering does not have enough 1/4" or XLR I/O for reamping so I would have to use SPDIF if I want to go with that particular interface.
Or are you talking about the DIRECT OUT/SEND? On the KPA it looks to be 1/4", are you saying you have a 1/4" - XLR cable that goes to your board?
Thanks! -
Sorry, can you elaborate on this? When you say "XLR to board" do you mean you are using the MAIN OUTS (XLR) that go into your board (and then audio interface) vs. using SPDIF out on the KPA to SPDIF in on your audio interface?
That is the reason I asked if people are seeing any issues using SPDIF (in quality of tone - I have heard that SPDIF in general on the device is now working both in and out). One of the audio interfaces I am considering does not have enough 1/4" or XLR I/O for reamping so I would have to use SPDIF if I want to go with that particular interface.
Or are you talking about the DIRECT OUT/SEND? On the KPA it looks to be 1/4", are you saying you have a 1/4" - XLR cable that goes to your board?
Thanks!I mean Main outs to board, those are XLRs. For the dry track I use the direct out on a third track. If I have to re-amp, THEN I connect the spdif...my board (small) is also my soundcard.
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ok perfect. I wonder if there is a way to keep everything cabled correctly between the recording portion and the reamping portion without creating some type of feedback loop? I will have to draw myself a diagram lol.
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ok perfect. I wonder if there is a way to keep everything cabled correctly between the recording portion and the reamping portion without creating some type of feedback loop? I will have to draw myself a diagram lol.
The spdif in on the Kemper can be muted (input menu), the out can be excluded from DAW. You can leave everything connected if you wish.
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I think I have it figured out for my approach:
<TRACKING PHASE>
Guitar -> KPA instrument IN -> KPA XLR or 1/4" main out -> analog inputs on audio device (this is the full patch, for monitoring and/or recording stereo processed tracks)
-- > KPA direct OUT -> 1/4" analog input on audio device (this is for the dry guitar signal)<REAMPING PHASE>
SPDIF OUT from audio device -> SPDIF IN on the KPA (I will have to set the DRY guitar track to route to SPDIF out which is sent to the KPA for "amplification"
KPA XLR or 1/4" main outs -> analog inputs on the audio device (record enabled)I think I should be able to keep this cabling permanently and I don't believe I will have any feedback loops as long as I don't route anything through SPDIF output on the audio interface back into the KPA SPDIF IN until I'm done and happy with my take/DRY guitar track. You also mentioned the SPDIF can be muted from within the KPA as well which is cool.
EDIT: I guess technically I could use SPDIF IN and OUT to/from the KPA as well. Still worried about loops though, but as long as I don't send any SPDIF out to the KPA and always only send the dry guitar track via SPDIF to the KPA I should be good. That would also cut down on AD/DA conversion in my process above. I really wish someone would comment on how the SPDIF I/O is working and sounding vs. the analog outs.
During all of this I will also have the monitor out cabled to a power amp + cab (for now) and later probably an FRFR system.
Cool stuff! -
*just marking this thread for later - don't mind me* (btw, we could really use a "marking" option)
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*just marking this thread for later - don't mind me* (btw, we could really use a "marking" option)
You can use the "add to favorites" option at the bottom right of the page...
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LOL, never seen that button before!!!
Thanks Davide! -
But this is not working with every Interface!
In my Case (old Edirol UA-25, but in the newer Roland/Cakewalk version the same) the Digital-IN is directly monitored to the MainOuts all the Time and also to the Digital-Out -> Feedback-Loop
If you want to record a dry & wet track, you cannot switch one of these XLR/Jack-Inputs off for direct Monitoring, so you hear both Signals all the Time. The only way is to set the monitoring in your DAW, but then you don't have zero latency.Are there interfaces where you can send differenet tracks on different outputs? So you can say the MainMix to Out1 & 2, and only the GuitarTrack1 to Out 3?
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Are there interfaces where you can send differenet tracks on different outputs? So you can say the MainMix to Out1 & 2, and only the GuitarTrack1 to Out 3?
My RME HDSP 9632 can do it, i think any RME interface can do it. The have that cool "Total Mix" function, where you route any input and output signal virtually to your liking. You can store these setting in presets and switch them to your situation. For Reamping and complex setting, this is a real blessing.
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till now i do the following:
guitar to lehle p-split - 1 signal to kpa and 1 directly to m-audio firewire 1814 (for using guitar rig 5 - sorry guys -but sometimes its great for me -- especially to mix with kpa)
stereo outs kpa to m-audio
also a direct out to m-audio
so i do recording with 4 tracks-
if i wanna reamp i mute the recorded stereo out tracks- send the recorded direct out to output 3 on m-audio and go to the input of the kpa---- for me it seems to work ---
im not familiar with spdif --the only thing i have to change for reamping is to remove 2 cables in front the m-audio ?
has anyone a better idea- should i try spdif ??? -
Spdif is digital, therefore it saves you the D/A out and A/D in conversions by re-amping...
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thanx, i think its too complicated for me--
other question- has anyone experience with midi-controllers using with kpa ?
for some recordings i wanna use the gain knob- during play-so its not possible to do on guitar --
for the moment i use the third hand from T.I.P.-- it fits for the gain knob on the kpa- looks crazy---
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CC on Amp (or FXs) parameters (out of volume and wah) is not yet supported, therefore no midi control over gain.
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till now i do the following:
guitar to lehle p-split - 1 signal to kpa and 1 directly to m-audio firewire 1814 (for using guitar rig 5 - sorry guys -but sometimes its great for me -- especially to mix with kpa)
stereo outs kpa to m-audio
also a direct out to m-audio
so i do recording with 4 tracks-
if i wanna reamp i mute the recorded stereo out tracks- send the recorded direct out to output 3 on m-audio and go to the input of the kpa---- for me it seems to work ---
im not familiar with spdif --the only thing i have to change for reamping is to remove 2 cables in front the m-audio ?
has anyone a better idea- should i try spdif ???Though the Lehle Splitters are very good i would definitly remove it from the signal chain, at least when recording and reamping. Splitters always reduce the signal quality a little bit, which might not be abvious at first sight but when you record at low levels and put some serius compression or amplification to the dry signal, you will deifnitely hear this. Please check my thread where i compared the DI Signals...
Especially when you aim for reamping you should keep the signal chain as clean as you possibly can. The best method for this is trying to avoid unnecessary AD, DA and impedance conversions, which automatically happens when using anlog ins or outs on the KPA.
So the highest possibly audio quality you can archieve at the moment is like this: Put your guitar directly into the KPA. Use the direct out of the KPA to put the dry guitar signal to your audio interface. This is the dry signal you record for later reamping. You can also use guitar rig on that signal of course so you dont need a splitter anymore.
The rest of the connections should be over SPDIF only. So the SPDIF goes out of the KPA to the SPDIF in of your interface and the other way back. So the normal output of the the KPA is going over SPDIF to your audio interface for monitoring and reamping.
For Reamping to function properly you need to use a separate audio bus in your audio sequenzer software like cubase. While the normal audio playback of the sequenzer is routed over the normal stereo output bus to the standard (analog) outputs of your interface, you create a second output bus where the dry guitar signals are routed. This bus must then use the SPDIF out exclusively. This of course needs the SPDIF out of the interface to be capable of carrying not simply the same stereo sound as your standard output but the dedicated sound of the reamping bus you created in your sequenzer. As long as this is possible with your interface, everything will be fine. Most better interfaces will allow for that
The SPDIF in at the KPA then will only receive the dry guitar signal. Then activte the SPDIF in on the KPA. If you have a headphone connected to the KPA you will then start to hear the reamped signal. Now you only need to record that signal in your sequenzer. Like on the output side you need to create an input bus which receives the SPDIF signal from the KPA. Record this track and you are done.
This all sounds very complicated but it is not. Once you git it running, reamping is great fun with the KPA. The good thing is you can even listen to your music in your sequenzer while doing the reamping without interfering each other if you use seperate buses. This way you can ultimately check if the selected KPA sounds fits onto your mix and you can even tweak around the sounds while the DAW is playing the dry guitar tracks for you.
a feature that me might see in the future is to able to output the dry guitar signal to the SPDIF too. This way you would not even that analog way from the direct out anymore.
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shit-
for me it´s only important for recording - not for live-playing -
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Though the Lehle Splitters are very good i would definitly remove it from the signal chain, at least when recording and reamping. Splitters always reduce the signal quality a little bit, which might not be abvious at first sight but when you record at low levels and put some serius compression or amplification to the dry signal, you will deifnitely hear this. Please check my thread where i compared the DI Signals...
Especially when you aim for reamping you should keep the signal chain as clean as you possibly can. The best method for this is trying to avoid unnecessary AD, DA and impedance conversions, which automatically happens when using anlog ins or outs on the KPA.
So the highest possibly audio quality you can archieve at the moment is like this: Put your guitar directly into the KPA. Use the direct out of the KPA to put the dry guitar signal to your audio interface. This is the dry signal you record for later reamping. You can also use guitar rig on that signal of course so you dont need a splitter anymore.
The rest of the connections should be over SPDIF only. So the SPDIF goes out of the KPA to the SPDIF in of your interface and the other way back. So the normal output of the the KPA is going over SPDIF to your audio interface for monitoring and reamping.
For Reamping to function properly you need to use a separate audio bus in your audio sequenzer software like cubase. While the normal audio playback of the sequenzer is routed over the normal stereo output bus to the standard (analog) outputs of your interface, you create a second output bus where the dry guitar signals are routed. This bus must then use the SPDIF out exclusively. This of course needs the SPDIF out of the interface to be capable of carrying not simply the same stereo sound as your standard output but the dedicated sound of the reamping bus you created in your sequenzer. As long as this is possible with your interface, everything will be fine. Most better interfaces will allow for that
The SPDIF in at the KPA then will only receive the dry guitar signal. Then activte the SPDIF in on the KPA. If you have a headphone connected to the KPA you will then start to hear the reamped signal. Now you only need to record that signal in your sequenzer. Like on the output side you need to create an input bus which receives the SPDIF signal from the KPA. Record this track and you are done.
This all sounds very complicated but it is not. Once you git it running, reamping is great fun with the KPA. The good thing is you can even listen to your music in your sequenzer while doing the reamping without interfering each other if you use seperate buses. This way you can ultimately check if the selected KPA sounds fits onto your mix and you can even tweak around the sounds while the DAW is playing the dry guitar tracks for you.
a feature that me might see in the future is to able to output the dry guitar signal to the SPDIF too. This way you would not even that analog way from the direct out anymore.
Awesome info, even if you're not using a KPA!!!
Yes, I would mark this post as a favorite, not mine lol.
So it sounds like you are more than happy with the SPDIF implementation of the KPA, the SPDIF issues are fixed so both IN and OUT works and you have also confirmed that the Direct Out is the way to go for getting DRY guitar into the audio interface. Excellent!
I really believe reamping is going to be my staple for recording. Being able to track stuff and not commit until mixdown (or close to it is great).
I mean technically you could have a killer mix made up of DRY guitar and midi tracks (for VST drums, synths, etc...) and actually print NOTHING until mixdown.
I also really like Scuffham S-Gear and even what I have tried with Guitar Rig 5 for some things. In some instances I've even used S-Gear / Red Wirez cabs on GR5 amps or more likley GR5 FX on S-Gear stuff. All possible because of a solid DRY guitar track.
