Profiling- Profile preamp only or profile poweramp + Preamp + cab.

    Ok I'm sure this has been covered, but I thought I would ask... my kemper's on order so I want to make sure I understand this first. The kemper will allow you to profile the preamp stage only(this does not include the power amp.) The other profile it will allow is for the poweramp+preamp+mic cabinet or you can profile the poweramp+preamp using a palmer box thru line with no cabinet? So if you only profile the preamp and you add it with one of the kemper cabinets is there any need for a poweramp stage? If I understand the poweramp should be transparent anyways... theres not built in poweramp stages in the kemper? This is probably a "dumb" question, but thought I would ask.



    The three profiles are as follows?


    preamp


    preamp+power amp no cab


    Preamp power amp cabinet?

    The preamp and power amp are the 2 distinct sections of amplifiers.
    The preamp traditionally is used to shape and eq the sound, the power amp to amplify it to performance levels.
    Back in the 60s guitarists realised that by turning their amps up very loud, the preamp and power amp distorted, giving that traditional late 60s and early 70s rock guitar sound. This was often augmented by the new fangled fuzz boxes, but thats a different type of distortion altogether.
    Anyway the only problem with this overdriven power amp rock sound was the really loud volumes required to achieve it.
    Cunning amp designers realised that a similar effect could be achieved at much lower volume by overdriving the preamp only. Thus the 'master volume' amp was born. In effect the master volume turns down the power amp while maintaining the 'wound up' preamp giving part of the traditional rock sound at much more manageable levels. Problem is, preamp distortion is only part of the equation and tends to be fizzy mushed and a bit thin. The amp needs the power amp contribution to round off the edges and 'bolden' the sound.
    As amp design has progressed, and indeed as new generations of guitarists have been brought up with these newer designs, more modern amps have been developed to obtain more of their signature sound from the preamp, but even now most amps need to be turned up to a particular volume before they start to sound good. This is because the effect of the power amp on the sound still makes such a huge contribution to the overall sound of the amp.
    Anyway, sorry about the storytelling style,(are you sitting comfortably) don't know what came over me, but hope that gives you an idea of the differences.
    Preamp only profiles are fine for instances where you intend to use a valve guitar power amp (which effectively takes over from the power amp section of the profiled amp) or for very aggressive metal style tones where that more fizzy edgy sound is desired. (Don't mean that to sound offensive, just descriptive for the uninitiated), although modern preamps have such comprehensively efficient tone networks on them they can smooth off a lot of those edges, and produce many sounds that people have grown to love.

    The power amp of a guitar amp is everything but transparent. The KPA gives you the possibility to combine a preamp with a cab, but I would not be so confident about the results. At best try it.
    Good luck and welcome on this forum! :)

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    OK I think I got it... only profile the preamp if you're using external power amp and cabinet. Profile the whole amp with cab mic if you are running through daw or monitors. Thank you!!!

    Quote from guitarnet70

    Best for profiling silently (no loud noise, no need for an isolation room for the amp...) and you can add the cab later from the ones available in the Kemper... ;)


    The only argument to "adding a cab later" is that any of those cabs still hold onto some aspects of the preamp/power amp that THEY were mated to when THEY were profiled, right?
    So, we are assuming profiling a preamp only (how does one really do that, take the out of the FX send back to KPA? Don't some amps actually place the FX loop in different places in the pre/power stage???) or grab preamp AND power amp using a load box that has a direct line out that can be sent to the KPA line IN. But even then, now you are getting preamp + power amp WITHOUT the natural interaction of poweramp with speakers/cab.
    Any way to slice it there is no super clear delineation between the components. It's the meshing of the components which is a WIN for the KPA in some cases, while it's that delineation of components that people love or don't with the AxeFX (and AxeFX II). Meaning, Cliff has spent a lot of time on speaker resonance controls, etc... to try and capture that full interaction that can be tweaked, but it's not the same as the "real" interaction that is happening during a real amp profiling session.
    Sorry, just thinking out loud here... mainly due to excitement about what the KPA is bringing to the table ;)
    While my testing so far is no where near exhaustive, I'm actually okay with sending main outs to FOH (lol, my nearfiled monitors / recording desk) and monitor out with cab disabled for connection to my power amp + cab.
    I DO feel like the DI profiles that some users have made actually sound a little better than cab disabled, but it's damn close. And I'm using a cheap solid state power amp. I would argue that with a tube based power amp you might not even be able to tell a difference... it's close.
    Anyway, as people get better and better profiling and start releasing DI profiles and Kemper works on these component seperations things will continue to get better and better.