If I had started today I would probably get Reaper. But since I've been Cubase user for a long time and don't want to waste time to learn a new DAW I will stuck with Cubase.
Is there anything specific that you don't like about Cubase? Is there a reason Reaper would be a better fit for you?
This is what I was referring to above with having good source recordings. Meaning if it is recorded/mixed with the right EQ, it will sound great no matter how much compression you use.
I don't quite agree with that. You can definitely squeeze the life out of a recording with a compressor, especially when compressing the whole mix. I use compressors sparingly. The key is get it right at the source. That leaves less work for you in the mixing process.
I mixed and mastered a song for a friend of mine. The tracks were awful. He later told me that he gave me that song because he knew the tracks were not great and he wanted to see what I could do with it. He then told me that I ended up with a much better master than he ever expected it to be. All of that to say that you can still make music with tracks that are not the best but it will take a lot more time to get it there. I worked my butt off on those tracks to get them to sound decent. Good tracks won't need a lot of production to get your song to a good place. "Get it right at the source" is my mantra. As a note, I used multiple compressors on each of the vocal tracks on this song and applied them lightly. He really liked the way that came out.
I have to admit their subscription program is awesome. $165 a year (or $15 a month, should you prefer) for basically everything they make means you've got to pay for it for almost three years before you'd cover the cost of the Pro DAW alone, and in that time there is almost certainty they'll have a new one. Not to mention the master classes.
That is almost as much as my Pro Tools license and that includes their whole add on plug in pack. I would probably choose to stay with them instead of switching to something new that I still had to pay that much per year to have. Where this starts to become a rub for me is that I only use this in my house as a hobby user. If I could make some money with this, I would probably change my mind.
The whole problem stems from people playing songs back to back on a device like an MP3 player or stereo. All of the songs need to be at the same volume. On a streaming platform I can see they are smart enough to adjust each track so they appear to be at the same volume. The only way to make them all similar across platforms is massive compression and peaking them as high as possible. The physical limitations of the medium become the volume limiter.
The example you gave of the waveform being rebuilt is very cool. But I would imagine the unit would be designed knowing in advance this is the case. And should be able to recreate/oversample/etc within safe limits. And we also have to remember people love MP3s smashed down to 128 kbs that sound like a robot singing in the shower
EQ, EQ, EQ... Never under estimate the EQ. What you are really talking about and looking for is "perceived loudness." You can affect that with different frequencies. It doesn't have to be a super loud master with the right EQ. Combine the loud master with the right EQ and you have a song that will penetrate the skulls of everyone that gets near it.
Of course. Pun on lightbox was intended.
I have two new mixes almost finished. Check them out when I post in Link Your Music section and we can critique and discuss to make them better. I'd look forward to it.
I know that feedback is valuable when learning these things. I am always very hesitant to give my opinion on these things. Every single time I do it seems to draw negative comments back toward me, even though the person asked for input. The last time all I did was say that I thought the drums were a little too far forward in the mix on the speakers I was listening to it on at that moment but I would need to get it in my monitors to really get a good feel for anything else that may stand out to me. That caused a comment to come back to me that they thought they sounded fine and I must not have much experience with mixing. What that should have told the person is that my speakers are different than theirs and on this particular set of speakers it didn't sound as good as it did on his and he may want to revisit it and see if he could pull the drums back a little without losing the sound he was going for. I don't mind giving honest input but it is just one man's opinion. There is no reason to be rude to someone that took the time to listen and give the feedback. He could have just said thank you and moved on. For some reason that has been the normal response type that I have received.
I have been doing live mixes for many years. I always feel like there is something new I can learn to make what I do better. I tend to get a lot of good comments about my mixes and I am a bit in demand in my area even though I have told people that I am not real interested in doing that type of work right now. I am not trying to brag and I hope it isn't coming across that way. The reason that I mention this is that I am not new at this stuff. I have mixed a lot of bands, some national touring bands. I am never giving feedback in a malicious manner. I even try to qualify it with a softening statement of something like "this is just my opinion" or on the speakers I am listening to it on this is what I am hearing" but that has not helped at all. I have just found it better to keep my opinion to myself sometimes.
Sorry for the rant / babble.
Ha! I've been asking serious mixing questions on here for a while now.
I think lightbox was the first to piss me off about it.
I am finding his input to be invaluable. I am very thankful that he is taking the time to post on these threads.
lightbox do you know if I could use my current iLok device for Cubase? Or do you have to buy their device? I looked into moving my Steven Slate Drums to another DAW. I can move the license to another device if needed. They didn't say anything about which devices they support. I also don't know if they are all called iLok devices or is that just a brand name for the device.
But I love this talk guys. This is how/when learning becomes fun. Hanging out with smart people talking shop on the stuff you love. Thanks for the great info.
I agree. I have been looking for a good forum for these types of discussions with people that take it seriously and not just throwing jabs at each other. I was thinking we need a good recording section here for those discussions instead of cluttering up the music section with our techie threads.
I apply the effects during the recording process because I need that feedback, but these are DAW plugins. I assume you mean the same. I will use Kemper stomps/effects when I do a DI track for reamping.
That is correct, you are adding it in the DAW. One thing really cool about the interface that lightbox recommended to me that I purchased is that it has a DSP in it and you can put effects on just the monitors. It doesn't become part of the recorded track but gives you what you need to get into the groove for the recording process.
If you are putting a DI track in for reamping, I would keep that completely dry for the same reasons I mentioned before. That way you have the ability to add and remove whatever you want to down the line. You have a lot more options with a dry track for reamping.
I'm using multiband compression on the Bass and sometimes drums. I like to keep the guitar tracks as raw as possible so I only use compression on relatively clean tones and that's where I use a stomp. I don't know if this is the right way to go about compression in the studio but it sounds decent to me. I have experimented with some sidechain compression and have done some parallel compression but that's the limit of my knowledge thus far.
I think lightbox is referring to the metering of db when you use digital to analog. So, a 0.0db on a digital meter (in DAW) may read +0.5db (and clipping) when it gets converted back to analog... something like that.
I would recommend not compressing anything when you are tracking it. Do it in the DAW. I never apply effects when tracking that my DAW has in it. That gives you the ability to make any changes you want after you have recorded the track. This is one thing that I can't understand about the thought of putting a bunch of effects on your guitar tone in your profiler or modeler when you record a track. The only thing I will put on the input signal is overdrive. I record either a clean or overdriven track and apply the rest of what I want in the DAW, unless it doesn't have it then I will put that on the input signal, such as a wah. Once you record it with the effects on it, you have to record it again if you decide later that you don't like it. I find this approach better than reamping.
I was going to bring this up (but I usually ramble on too long so I did not). I do not compress individual tracks ever. This would probably get even louder recordings. My bass, drums, guitar, and vocals are usually pretty compressed at record time anyway.
I am too ole school and use my DAW like a tape deck. One shot charlie style. No raw signals recorded. Maybe someday I will try to reamp with the Kemper
I always apply compressors to the individual channels. That is where I want to control each track's dynamics. I will also sometimes put more than one compressor on a track. I set them both to very light compression in succession of one another. Then you get an end result that sounds pleasing and is in a dynamic range that I want but doesn't pickup any negative artifacts from compressing it a lot more one time.
$132 isn't enough of a difference in price for that to be a consideration for me at this point. I have thrown a lot of money at Avid and I am okay with that difference in price. My thoughts are similar to what lightbox is saying. I plan on investing the time to learn the new DAW and want that time to bring me some sort of value for a period of time. I am not doing work for any customers but I would love to do that. I like the idea of a DAW that has some hidden features that I can grow into. I am not afraid of doing some digging and playing. I did that with Pro Tools.
Yes, i don't know how many you pay for "your" crossgrade Sweetwater offers Crossgrade to Cubase Pro 11 for $332.
But Logic Pro costs ony $200 and I never paid again for any update since 2013.
That is slightly cheaper than what I found on their web site. It may pay to get it through them if I buy it. Even with the tax it is slightly cheaper. I don't know if they charge for upgrades. The thing I like about it is if I decide to move to a Windows machine, I can use the same DAW on that platform. I like not being locked into Apple. Their machined are really expensive. If I were setting all of this up fresh today, I would run it on a Windows machine. They have really caught up to the Apple hardware specs and are abound half of the price.
Edit: The reason it is less is that you have to buy the USB key separately.
I see Cubase has a crossgrade option. Since I am currently a Pro Tools customer I can get a pretty big discount to move over to them. That officially puts them on the table as an option.
This is all going to be a balance. I am looking for the most bang for the buck that I can grow with that I won't outgrow. I also do not want to get into this subscription thing anymore. I don't mind paying once in a while to upgrade if necessary. I was already doing that. I have 5 programs in my short list, that is growing right now. The research is starting. I took a look at Logic X and Cubase Pro 11 so far. Both look good. Reaper is definitely on the table too. I didn't realize they had a video editing software as well. That is definitely a bonus. I have thought about doing that type of thing as well.
Another thing I forgot to mention is that I want the DAW to be able to use automation like Pro Tools. That is a powerful feature that I think is a must have. I am not sure if these other DAWs have that.
Display MoreAll this being said, my choices were dictated by the above. And to make a long story short, I use Steinberg Cubase Pro and Steinberg Nuendo, the latter mostly for work on movie score and for Dolby Atmos.
Now does this mean I would recommend these products to you? No, because so far I don't know what you're actually doing in terms of recording/mixing work and what your mid to long term plans are. I don't even know why you have used Reaper and Studio One in the past and why they haven't become your weapon of choice.
So I would kindly ask you to provide some info on what you're currently doing and what you're planning to do in the long run.
Do you really need one of the "big" solutions? Would you rather go for a smaller or medium solution with the option to upgrade to the big, professional solution without starting from scratch? Do you need a (relatively) simple solution that doesn't kill your creative moments with its complexity or do you need something that has all the bells and whistles in case you need it?
And last but not least (before we might get into more detailled discusion) ... your statement regarding third party plugins. I totally understand what you mean by "expensive rabbit hole". (Waves plugins would become a rabbit hole in no time, by the way)
But keep in mind that even a lucky bastard sitting in front of an actual SSL console every single day can't get the sound he's looking for without "some" outboard gear. You basically just need to figure out what exactly you need and why. Stay away from plugin hoarding! And stay away from plugin subscriptions!
I might be able to help you in this field as well but let's try to walk one step after the other, haha.
Cheers
Martin
My ARC showed up this week. I connected it but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. I am looking forward to that, then this whole Pro Tools thing came up...
I am pretty much an at home hobbyist at this point. I would love to take it farther but I have not found anyone that is looking to have someone work on their songs so I have not been able to take it beyond me creating my own content, which hasn't been a lot. I am trying to focus on moving things forward with this. I am willing to invest a little to have a good system that can grow with me and not have to be completely replaced ever couple of years. That is why that interface really works for me. I can't see myself outgrowing that unit and I know they will support it for a good while. The fact that I have not really been able to expand what I am doing with this system is what has me considering the options that are out there. I could possibly end up with Reaper or Studio 1 in the end. I just want to make sure I am putting my efforts into something that I can use for a decent amount of time and not outgrow it. I have been doing live mixing for a long time. I am very familiar with the use of compressors, verbs, delays and such from mixing with a digital mixer. Going between a DAW and my digital mixer has been a very easy transition for me.
I have posted this thread on a few forums and have been doing some research on the DAW software that people have been suggesting looking to see what may fit my needs the best. I have been getting a lot of people recommending Logic. On the surface it looks to be a good solution for what I need. I can se the possibility of me wanting to move to a Windows machine in the future so I would like something that can go cross platform, which was another plus for me with Pro Tools. I don't know that I "need" one of the big solutions today but if I were ever able to start doing work on other people's songs, I would want something with the power to handle it and deliver a good product. I really enjoy mixing and mastering and would like to do more of it.
Let me know what else I can provide that may help.
Louder always sounds better. It is really a creative choice. I think it also depends on what you are planning on doing with the songs. If you are putting them on a streaming service they seem to volume level things before it goes across the stream so there may not be any real discernable difference to the listener. Professional producers are always trying to get as close to 0 as possible it seems. Try bumping it up just a hair and see what you think. As long as you don't push it into clipping you are good.
lightbox any good recommendations for this? You knocked it out of the park on the interface.
Well, Avid has finally angered me for the last time. I evidently have more money than sense. They raised the license price and doubled it and I didn't catch it last year. This year I spent more money in December and paid more attention to my credit card statement and caught the increase. I am not going to continue to pay the price they want every year so it is time to jump ship. This whole situation really ticks me off. I just spent a ton of money upgrading my hardware and drum plugin because the Mac OS upgrade I did made a bunch of things not work anymore.
I don't really use third party plugins. I didn't want to go down that expensive rabbit hole so I learned how to do everything I wanted to do in Pro Tools using their plugins. The only third party thing I use is Steven Slate Drums, which I may now also have to replace if I can't move that over. I just upgraded that. I want the new solution to be as all inclusive as possible. It needs to cost me less than $199 per year to use it. I really don't want to have to pay every single year to have a DAW. Solutions that get me away from that will be preferred. I am running this on a Mac. I had thought about moving to Windows but that would cause me to have to buy a new large monitor as part of that move.
I have used Reaper and Studio 1 in the past. I have until December of this year when my license expires to find a new solution. What else should I be looking at?
I am wondering if moving to something like Reaper and buying a plugin bundle like Waves would get me what I need. I just need to verify that I don't nave to pay an annual fee on the plugins.
SO what's so bad about the UI? I agree rig manager could be improved, but it's not horrible. And using the Kemper is pretty simple once you learn it.
I think the Kemper is probably the easiest to learn of all of the units on the market for someone coming from an amp and pedal board. It all just made sense to me when I first got my hands on my Stage. It is laid out just like using a pedal board with an amp with an effects loop.
I honestly don't have any gear desires right now. I just had to go through a major upgrade with my recording gear so I need nothing more there. I have more guitars than I would ever really need and they cover a very wide range. At this point I am planning to thin out a lot of gear this year. I already have 5 amps setting in a room ready to sell. I just pulled my Eleven Rack and my Axe-FX Ultra out of my recording desk and will be selling those. I already know of a hand full of guitars that I am going to put up for sale. I am considering a big pedal purge as well. I feel like the gear that I use the most is really suiting my needs and it is just that time in my life to cut down on my gear. Now that I have publicly said this I am going to run into a guitar that I just can't live without or someone is going to come out with a new pedal that will get my attention.
