Posts by SonicExporer

Quote from Dean_R

The same thing happened to me the first day I tried the Kemper and I didn't realize the power until the next day when I started profiling my amps and realizing how scarily close the Kemper sounded and felt. The first day couldn't understand what the hoopla was about and what every body was talking about, but I couldn't argue with the great results others got. I said to myself, if others are making it work, then why not me. I decided to give it a serious attempt.
I think what happens is that we all come with so much expectations above and beyond what the reality is. The sound coming from a mic in front of a tube amp will not always mean that as soon as you hear, angles will sing and rainbows will appear etc. The magic comes in a different form and there need to be some effort to make that magic happen. Think about it, on the surface, what's really magical about the sound of a miced tube amp.

My advice, give it at least a week, try different profiles and play around with it. It's so damn close to the real thing that it will save you from the hassle of using microphones forever and you won't be sacrificing much if any.

Valid opinion when it comes to people who are not familiar with what a mic'ed tube amp sounds like. In these instances profiling your own amp can potentially be eye-opening. And either way it is neat to see the KPA work, the whole premise of profiling is really cool. However, the tonal result too often has issues in the gain realm, as has been demonstrated and experienced. Based on tonal results alone, IMO the KPA is more akin to a self-configuring modeler than an actual ground-up profiler. Just like the POD or other modelers have a unique tone signature baseline, so does the KPA. But it also extends into the gain/dist structure. Tremendous potential if this can be fixed, or at least greatly improved.

For those reality-impaired individuals who can't read and continue to make personal attacks and propagate falsehoods, I never said in a broad context the POD was better than KPA (or vice-versa). What I did say IIRC is that I can get some better tones with a POD 2.0 in the signal chain which the KPA can not simply achieve based on everything I've heard and tried (which is a lot). Namely clarity and the proper upper midrange found in Marshall sytyle amps. A good analog pedal in front of the right settings on a POD 2.0 will get superior tones for certain styles, and especially on solo tones, rather than the raspy, congested gain structure the KPA will too often impose. By itself the POD has a more digital fizzy gain to it, but if you dial that back considerably and use a good analog pedal on the front end, the end result is often pretty decent. Feel is not good, flexibility is not so great and tone shaping options are very limited. But core tone is tolerable. Not so with KPA for too many instances for certain tones & styles. And putting the same pedal in front of the KPA doesn't help matters much. Which shouldn't be necessary anyway with a $2,0000 device claiming to be able to replicate and sound like a real amp. A $200 POD sure, but not a KPA.

OP, please post back after you have profiled and let us know if it did much worthwhile to fix the tone shortcomings you are hearing.

Sonic

Quote from Per

Let me out it another way. If you haven't compared the sound of the actual amp on record to the profile then you're just basing your judgements off of assumptions and some other engineers ideas about what good amp tone might be.

It's not your fault, I mean how could you know what it's meant to sound or react like? It would be impossible to do that. It is however your fault for having the option and choosing to not do this, then feeling the need to opine without experience. You lack the point of reference to make assertions about how accurate the Kemper is or is not.

You can of course say you don't like a tone, but so what? What's that got to do with how well the Kemper does its job? Thats like me saying I don't like the guitar tone in a Johnny Cash record, it's all twangy, too much mids and got no sustain, therefore it's the fault of the tape or vinyl which must be doing a bad job of reproducing what the microphone heard.

I'm assuming this is directed at me, and if so, it is just more baseless noise and fabricated statements, along with some of the other few KPA cult members on the forum who continue to distract, divert, etc.

I have profiled a number of times and compared the KPA to tracks done with that same setup direct from amp. The KPA has the same problems - the very same tonal shortcomings repeatedly discussed - that are rasp, congestion, thin notes and generally un-natural sounding tone/gain in comparison to a real amp. It varies depending on circumstance, sometimes almost close other times terrible Same results confirmed by Dimi, by Sinimx, and many other customers who continue to come onto this forum and raise the very same concerns. And as have some commercial profile makers I've spoke to off the record, as well as highly respected associates of mine in the industry.

I don't know what your intention is, but it certainly doesn't appear interested in helping the KPA meet up to it's marketing hype. Some of us wish to see the KPA improved rather than continue to frustrate current and future customers.

Sonic

The notion of profiling one's own amp to solve these tone problems is becoming a tiring idea that in no way changes the existence of tonal shortcomings in the KPA. What it does do however is cast doubt on customers who are raising very valid and real tone concerns. Granted, it is possible the degree of tone issues to any given user's ears may lessen when profiling their own amp, however it won't be statistically any less than if they just tried another profile.

To the OP, the issues you are describing are very unlikely to disappear by profiling your own amp, don't let anybody lead you to question otherwise. That said, it is a good exercise for you to learn how the KPA behaves via some profiling of your own. Per and Dimi are right in that until you do some profiling you won't really appreciate what's going on with the KPA, good or bad.

Sonic

Quote from Dimi84

I have heard it from other users that we are not supposed to "argue" with moderators, but I can send you in private quote after quote by people using way, way, way more worse personal attacks than Sinmix's "lack of respect", to the level where it gets quite disgusting. What do we do to report such cases? Tag you when they are on going? Can people get banned for attacking others for, say, their supposed "mental health" problems?

I've tried to report such behavior and the moderator's apparently won't do anything. Clearly it's okay when a handful of the KPA Forum Cult consistently attack other members who's opinions (even when backed by fact) demonstrate shortcomings of the KPA. But it's not okay when those same members try to then defend themselves And IMO there are aspects of this that are probably being intentionally orchestrated since the same handful of people who seem to repeatedly and intentionally try to derail topics and frustrate users in attempts to discredit and bully them into silence.

People are not stupid, they see exactly what is really going on here. And their ears can hear what is going on with the KPA, or rather what is not going on. And it does not reflect well on Kemper at all.

The vast majority of all this can be easily resolved by Kemper simply fixing the KPA tone to actually live up to it's claims. As I've said, how Kemper responds is going to tell me, and many other people, all I need to know.

Sonic

Quote from ElDoca

If you were paying for studio time and had to choose a session player, would you pick the one that comes in and spends hours setting up cabs and mics. Or, would you pick the player that comes in, flips the power button and just plays?

I'd pick the player that had the best tone, or at least the most realistic tone. If the tone isn't there, or doesn't sound real, then it is a compete waste of studio time no matter how many flashing lights or bells & whistles the device may have, or not.

Welcome.

Quote from future2future

First off: I'm missing something. Call me crazy (and a lot of you probably will lol) but i feel there's "harmonic content" missing. I just received a cd which i've played on about two months ago: My 6l6 amp with a pedalboard, SM57 and a Ribbon. And i'm feeling it's a richer sound, more complex, more alive than the Kemper profiles.

You are NOT crazy, I heard the same thing the first day I plugged into the KPA and spent months chasing my tail thinking either something was wrong with my device or I was doing something wrong. Not so. The KPA simply has tone issues in too many instances. In the very areas you are describing. Rather than a rich, organic, real sound it too often does a raspy, congested kind of thing in the gain/dist structure. And you may also notice that solo notes sound thin or "phasey" and don't "separate" well, rather some smearing in the harmonics.

Kemper is now aware of this for at least a month now, tests and data have been provided by users, so hopefully they will fix this issue because, as you imply, it may be fine for demos or live, but IMO for serious recording applications it currently fails to meet an adequate standard of realism.

Sonic

Quote from SonicExporer

I didn't check email yet, will do so now...
Most of the legacy guys on the forum are constantly advising that people need to fill out tickets to let the company know of any legitimate problems/concerns. So I was just following their lead. Sorry if it inconvenienced the team.

So it seems reasonable to now assume if the tone issues are deemed feasibly fixable, and the company cares to fix things, then it will eventually be addressed. So users don't need to keep doing tests & experiments. And we don't need to have this discussion any longer.

Sonic

Hello Hans ( @hjscheffler) ,

It has been a month or so since @Dimi84 opened a Support ticket and began submitting test data. With the understanding a patch & release doesn't happen overnight, has the development team at least been able to verify the issue and determine if it is fixable?

Thanks,

Sonic

I don't think anybody said or implied the clips SinMix posted near the top of the thread were supposed to be the best the KPA can do. They are simply a comparative.

As to KPA profile vs. a real amp it profiled (which again is not necessarily the context Sinmix was going for) I personally think in order for any such comparisons to be valid the test should be accompanied by both the profile file and the DI, and preferably a video so people can verify, if they so choose, that no trickery was utilized, and also see what exactly was done within the profile settings. Because frankly if you have to do things like insert EQ's in the profiling chain of the reference amp, or load EQ FX into the KPA then there's a clear problem. The KPA should be able to easily match the reference amp, and more importantly at least sound like a real amp, like it claims - yet too often does not. This has been repeatedly demonstrated, and whether or not some people can hear it, or appreciate it, is a separate matter. The issues are a big deal for those people who know and can hear proper tone and need such tone for serious recording applications. Kemper is now aware of the problems, has been given plenty of clear test materials & research, and has a choice to either fix things or else change their misleading marketing campaign to stop customers from ending up frustrated. Further, all this random referencing to KPA artists or producers is ludicrous and meaningless because we have no idea the business motivations/deals nor what has been done to the tones. In fact some of the "names" involved have cited or implied some of the very same shortcomings we have been discussing. And have had to jump through all kinds of hoops to try and get the KPA to generate a profile more close to the reference amp. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

The bottom line is simply this: As it stands today the KPA too often does not meet up to the claim of matching the reference amp nor does it even sound like a real amp in certain instances (too many instances IMO for gain tones and especially for serious recording applications). There is something not right in the gain/dist structure that is resulting in things like rasp, congestion and thinned out/phasey solo notes.

For me, and I suspect others, Kemper's reaction to this matter is going to tell me all I need to know, and will indicate whether or not the KPA has a place in my future. As well as how I will react in KPA related discussions forever into the future within the industry. I hope to become a strong user and supporter of the KPA, but that is now in the hands of Kemper.

Sonic

Quote from sogrocks

thanks for all the answers guys. At least I know my Kemper is not faulty.

That's open for debate but let's just say it's operating as presently designed.

@Dimi84 also provided a video to show how to use the EQ ducking inside the KPA to help with dynamics. It's rather cool, so after you've tried the more obvious suggestions already made, give that a try.

( Dimi, maybe you could point a link to that post with the EQ ducking tutorial or recall the name of the post? )

That said, there are certain limitations within the KPA WRT simultaneously large amounts of preamp and power stage gain, but it doesn't sound like that's what you are experiencing.

Sonic

Nothing changes the fact the KPA has been demonstrated repeatedly now to have tone issues in various scenarios, considered serious by some especially for serious recording applications. The rasp/congestion, thin individual notes (phased or modulated whatever). There is something not right in the gain structure, and IMO all these issues are likely related to the same underlying problem. Much has been provided to Kemper and at this point an answer should be forthcoming as to whether or not the issue is fixable.

As to this A/B/C/D comparison I generally avoid them but will say that clip "B" is the worst of the bunch IMO, doesn't sound as organic as the others and has something going on in the gain structure that doesn't sound as musical as the others.

Sonic

@sogrocks

I lean toward pre-constructed templates being used inside the KPA, and cab response being generated during profiling, and then EQ matching of sorts (and during refining). So yeah, in that theory it wouldn't surprise me that you'd hear little difference in the amp tone, or rather more specifically the gain structure/tone. But as Dimi said, you need to compare apples and apples in the testing approach.

Sonic

Valid advice for high end fizz, and I am not detracting from that. But just to make sure there is no confusion, the EQ notch method for fizz is for instances of plain old high-end fizz

However, the rasp, congestion and thin "phasey" solo notes found in many profiles are an entirely separate matter, not simply some high end fizz that can be EQ-notched out.

Sonic

I am just starting to experiment using the KPA for bass tones and have a few observations, but in particular wanted to toss out one specific suggestion....

Guitar and Bass rigs have quite different EQ frequencies. It would be nice if within the EQ section of the KPA there was a "Bass Rig Shift" toggle that would alter the frequencies of the EQ knobs to be more tailored to Bass rigs rather than guitar. I suspect this would be a rather quick and simple feature to implement with minimal risk and yet be quite useful for Bass applications.

Sonic

Quote from ColdFrixion

Here's an EQ'd version of your Kemper sample. Do you still hear it?

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If you think most of the issues can be solved with simple EQ then why not send your findings to Kemper so they can fix the KPA?

No, rather EQ is nothing more than a band-aid that improves things in some circumstances. That does in no way excuse or minimize the fact there are core tone issues with the KPA.

@Bommel , I agree on the pedal in the front end, this is notorious for helping digital amp sims. Half the reason this works though is because when you goose the front end and/or add a bit of OD you then by definition can (and usually should) dial back the gain on the amp sim. And by doing this it obviously reduces the fizz. So there's actually at least two main factors typically involved in why this approach can sound more "organic". Bottom line though, shouldn't have to be doing this with a device like the KPA IMO, especially when it's whole claim is to profile & reproduce the sound of a real rig correctly.

Sonic

Agree 100%, at the end of the day tone and integrity is what matters. Especially with a $2K+ device. If the core tone has clear shortcomings, which is absolutely the case here, then either fix the problems or else convey this is as good as it gets. And market within boundaries that reflect the device's actual tone abilities so that all customers can make the right choices for their applications rather than some customers ending up tremendously frustrated.

There are an increasing number of alternatives out there these days, with ever improving tone quality. Now is the time where the KPA either addresses internal tone issues and remains a top dog, or may well begin a downward progression. There is simply no way Kemper cannot realize the issues at this point with all that has been provided them. The only question now is if the problems are fixable and if Kemper has the will to correct and/or improve them.

JMHO.

Sonic

I just noticed Bias is coming out with a lunchbox processor (non-amplified). Looks very similar to the KPA in many ways.

Quote from Guitartone

I remember the time a few years ago after a particular update.

One member said the tone has changed, something has changed with the update.
Suddenly other members started hearing the same tone change, the thread grew bigger and bigger, more and more members started hearing the change in tone...BIG drama.

Then CK told us nothing had changed, it's identical to the way it was before the update.

lol, guitarists

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I'm not sure what your point or motivation is. But it might be helpful to refer back to post 1038.. The tone issues with the KPA are very much real.

Sonic